Engine Oil Level Too High

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undysworld
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Re: Engine Oil Level Too High

Post by undysworld » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:21 am

I've always assumed valve covers presented an unusual fastening challenge because the gaskets were easy to crush and thus deform the covers causing leaks.

30nm equals 22.13 ft. lbs according to a conversion table. I see no reason to recommend otherwise. But you should do as you see fit. Glad your problem has been resolved.
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bbolander
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Re: Engine Oil Level Too High

Post by bbolander » Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:31 am

We'll see how it goes, we can always tighten it and have more new gaskets if needed. We had two concerns.

The new OEM pump from SAV was slightly convex, i.e. rocked slightly side to side on the base. We figured that was because the bolt tightening pulls the ears down.

The old NAPA pump that the previous Owner put on and hasn't been touched since was actually concave a little at the base, i.e. bolt ears pulled down too much so that there was a bow up in the middle. And the nuts didn't feel too tight when we took them off.
1971 Pinzgauer 710M, all stock including 245-16 Maloya tires, taken off and stored for show
BFG MT KM2 265/75R16's on Black SAV replacement rims on now

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Jimm391730
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Re: Engine Oil Level Too High

Post by Jimm391730 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:28 pm

valve covers presented an unusual fastening challenge because the gaskets were easy to crush
The area of the gasket compared to the single bolt that applies pressure makes the likelyhood of "crushing" the gasket pretty remote; I am more worried about cracking the valve cover because the bolt's point of pressure has to be cantilevered over to the sides where the gasket is located.
OEM pump from SAV was slightly convex, i.e. rocked slightly side to side on the base. We figured that was because the bolt tightening pulls the ears down.
My feeling is that the convexity is not intentional; most "flat" parts are intended to be flat. The ears just get held tightly to the block by the compression of the bolts; the force is straight down to clamp the pump to the block (and seal the gaskets). 30Nm equals 22 foot*pounds of torque, and that seems about right from my experience and "feel".
Jim M.
712W and 710M

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bbolander
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Re: Engine Oil Level Too High

Post by bbolander » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:44 am

Heading back to the Pinz today. I think I'll go ahead and torque to 30 Nm as you've suggested.
1971 Pinzgauer 710M, all stock including 245-16 Maloya tires, taken off and stored for show
BFG MT KM2 265/75R16's on Black SAV replacement rims on now

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bbolander
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Re: Engine Oil Level Too High

Post by bbolander » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:32 am

We successfully completed the carburetor rebuild today and it turned out perfectly. Float levels perfect, synchronized both were 10, ran very smooth and no exhaust smoke or smell. And we replaced the leaking fuel pump with an OEM fuel pump from SAV.

So tomorrow I'll change the oil again, and we should have no more fuel in the oil.

Thanks for everyone's help on this.
1971 Pinzgauer 710M, all stock including 245-16 Maloya tires, taken off and stored for show
BFG MT KM2 265/75R16's on Black SAV replacement rims on now

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bbolander
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Re: Engine Oil Level Too High

Post by bbolander » Sat May 20, 2017 9:42 pm

Took an extended trip in the Pinz, oil level is normal and hasn't increased, no fuel smell in the oil. We had trouble with the new OEM SAV fuel pump providing fuel, and put the same M60175 fuel pump back on, so it wasn't the problem, it was the choke being set at 1/2 on all the time and the carburetors running way to rich.
1971 Pinzgauer 710M, all stock including 245-16 Maloya tires, taken off and stored for show
BFG MT KM2 265/75R16's on Black SAV replacement rims on now

ChickenPinz
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Re: Engine Oil Level Too High

Post by ChickenPinz » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:56 pm

Re-opening this thread since I have a similar issue.

@bbolander, are you sure the original fuel pump was not at fault? Early in the thread you said you saw fuel underneath it upon removal, but then later you felt the choke-plate misadjustment was the issue and you thought the pump was fine as were going to re-install it.

Just want to be clear if you found root cause.

My new-to-me-710K came with a high oil level, and one that smelled of fuel and had low viscosity. I removed the fuel pump and there were no signs of fuel in the base, so I cleaned it all up, repacked it with grease and re-installed it. Additionally, both fuel lines were full of fuel suggesting it didn't leak down back through the pump.

Oil has been changed and I've carefully marked the oil level after hours of resting. This will allow me to clearly see if it rises in the future, but if it does I'd like to leverage your experience to know where to turn next. I could certainly go down the carb-rebuild path, but I can't see a clear mechanism how even with a rich mixture there'd be oil contamination of the level you've described.

Thoughts from the peanut gallery?
710K

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pcolette
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Re: Engine Oil Level Too High

Post by pcolette » Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:59 pm

These carbs use a choke mechanism that actually increases the amount of fuel rather than decreasing the amount of air to enrich the mixture, as in most carbs. So if the choke is not adjusted correctly it is actually dumping extra fuel down the carbs. The problem of engine oil diluted with gas has been reported a few times over the years and has sometimes been traced back to the choke and sometimes to leaking body gaskets in the fuel pump. If you are in a warm climate and have the cold-climate choke plates installed, the problem of an improperly adjusted choke is likely to be more severe since the cold-climate plates provide greater fuel flow.

edit: I forgot that the proper name for the choke housing is "starter body". Here are a couple of photos borrowed from Swiss Army Vehicles to show the difference between the 2 starter (choke) plates.
7121085302.jpg
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sav6843.jpg
sav6843.jpg (29.87 KiB) Viewed 2289 times
Paul C.
_________
'73 Swiss 710M
'89 Puch 230GE
2002 MB G500

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bbolander
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Re: Engine Oil Level Too High

Post by bbolander » Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:29 pm

ChickenPinz wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:56 pm
Re-opening this thread since I have a similar issue.

@bbolander, are you sure the original fuel pump was not at fault? Early in the thread you said you saw fuel underneath it upon removal, but then later you felt the choke-plate misadjustment was the issue and you thought the pump was fine as were going to re-install it.

Just want to be clear if you found root cause.

My new-to-me-710K came with a high oil level, and one that smelled of fuel and had low viscosity. I removed the fuel pump and there were no signs of fuel in the base, so I cleaned it all up, repacked it with grease and re-installed it. Additionally, both fuel lines were full of fuel suggesting it didn't leak down back through the pump.

Oil has been changed and I've carefully marked the oil level after hours of resting. This will allow me to clearly see if it rises in the future, but if it does I'd like to leverage your experience to know where to turn next. I could certainly go down the carb-rebuild path, but I can't see a clear mechanism how even with a rich mixture there'd be oil contamination of the level you've described.

Thoughts from the peanut gallery?
Well, it's been almost 3 years since we worked on the Pinz. It runs well and I drive it a little twice a week. Last time I checked the oil it didn't need any and did have a slight fuel smell to it, but I don't think it was strong as before. I'll take a look at it tomorrow and see if the oil level has risen any.
1971 Pinzgauer 710M, all stock including 245-16 Maloya tires, taken off and stored for show
BFG MT KM2 265/75R16's on Black SAV replacement rims on now

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bbolander
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Re: Engine Oil Level Too High

Post by bbolander » Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:09 pm

ChickenPinz wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:56 pm
Re-opening this thread since I have a similar issue.

@bbolander, are you sure the original fuel pump was not at fault? Early in the thread you said you saw fuel underneath it upon removal, but then later you felt the choke-plate misadjustment was the issue and you thought the pump was fine as were going to re-install it.

Just want to be clear if you found root cause.

My new-to-me-710K came with a high oil level, and one that smelled of fuel and had low viscosity. I removed the fuel pump and there were no signs of fuel in the base, so I cleaned it all up, repacked it with grease and re-installed it. Additionally, both fuel lines were full of fuel suggesting it didn't leak down back through the pump.

Oil has been changed and I've carefully marked the oil level after hours of resting. This will allow me to clearly see if it rises in the future, but if it does I'd like to leverage your experience to know where to turn next. I could certainly go down the carb-rebuild path, but I can't see a clear mechanism how even with a rich mixture there'd be oil contamination of the level you've described.

Thoughts from the peanut gallery?
I checked the oil today. The level was right at the full mark and the oil didn't smell like fuel. But the oil seems thinner than it should be. It's been driven about 1200 miles since we did the carb rebuild and oil change. I need to give the pedal 2 or 3 pumps to start it after it's sat for a few days. So I think we made it much better, but probably not completely fixed.
1971 Pinzgauer 710M, all stock including 245-16 Maloya tires, taken off and stored for show
BFG MT KM2 265/75R16's on Black SAV replacement rims on now

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