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Re: Sitting 4+ years, checklist for resurrection...

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:05 am
by Get2work
Well I load tested both batteries, they checked out fine. Put them on a trickle charge to make sure they were absolutley up to snuff. Re-tested voltage at the starter and measured 23.55V. Got a little excited and bumped the starter button to see what would happen. Got about 3 engine revolutions before it drained the batteries down. That's the best signs of life I've seen so far. I have a 24V charger/booster I thought about putting on it during start procedure. But, I'm wondering if this starter is just weak and needs a rebuild. It's definitely skipping some teeth at some point. Hopefully not the flywheel.

Gauges and dash lights coming on nicely with juice. Wiper motor functions. Headlights, signals, tails all operate. Heater fan works. Flasher works.

Went to drain/refill the engine oil, but someone boogered up the allen plug, so I need to get a replacement coming before attempting to remove. Worst case I'll weld a nut on the plug to get it out.

Air filter is fine. No mice remnants anywhere to be found. Hopefully I'll have some more time this weekend to tinker with it.

Re: Sitting 4+ years, checklist for resurrection...

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:49 am
by rmel
Well sounds like your batteries are weak too ://

If you think there's a gear skip it's gonna be on the ring gear not the starter most likely.
But you can confirm that by inspecting the teeth with the top bell housing cover
removed -or- with the starter pulled. But I'd hold off on figuring that for a bit.

BTW if it's cranking for a bit you really should be able to crank by hand with a 1/2" ratchet
off the crank. Don't attempt to crank off of the fan pulley :wink:

Many of the drain plugs are Brass not steel but not all. If Brass you won't be able to easily
weld on that. What I have done with Allen plugs gone round'ish is get a 11MM or 7/16"
Socket Allen wrench, then use your bench grinder to fit it to the buggered up opening tight
and drive it in as deep as it can go with gentle hammer blows. Incidentally, the drain plugs
have a magnet built in to catch any metallic debris, it's a good thing to retain with a
replacement.

Apply some moderate heat -- but not a lot. Then with a breaker bar -- HAVE AT IT. Should
come off.

Re: Sitting 4+ years, checklist for resurrection...

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:00 am
by djw
Two of these seems a good investment (EverStart Maxx Group 27) in your project:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/EverStart-Ma ... 7/49988393

Re: Sitting 4+ years, checklist for resurrection...

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:11 am
by Get2work
Thanks, I seem to fight battery issues constantly. Seems like every year I put batteries in something.

I’ll get that straightened out and soldier on...


Donny
1979 Pinz 710M
Located in Southwest Ohio

Re: Sitting 4+ years, checklist for resurrection...

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:21 am
by djw
Get2work wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:11 am
Thanks, I seem to fight battery issues constantly. Seems like every year I put batteries in something.

I’ll get that straightened out and soldier on...
I have the same issues with my other two and four wheel vehicles and the a perpetual battery of the month club.

The 710K batteries nearly 10 years old and I keep waiting/expecting them to die, but they seem strong and capable. Go figure.

Re: Sitting 4+ years, checklist for resurrection...

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:21 am
by rmel
If you use the Battery cut-off switch that would explain it.
No parasitic paths to discharge the battery.

Batteries sitting in any vehicle are subject to being discharged by
tiny amounts of current for all the electronics in their standby state,
only millamps but it's enough to get the voltage under 12.4V which is
where sulfation begins.

My two Yellow tops for the 24V in the 710 just keep on trucking, I always
remember to open the switch. Whereas the Yellow tops for the 12V Aux
batteries I have replaced twice -- they ain't cheap. If you can keep them
charged fully when not running life extends considerably. But I constantly
forget to do that :(

Re: Sitting 4+ years, checklist for resurrection...

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:29 am
by djw
rmel wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:21 am
If you use the Battery cut-off switch that would explain it.
No parasitic paths to discharge the battery.
I always use, and have always used, the cut-off, so your point explains it exactly.

I need cut-offs in every other vehicle apparently too it appears.

Re: Sitting 4+ years, checklist for resurrection...

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:17 pm
by boeing7873
"Air filter is fine. No mice remnants anywhere to be found. Hopefully I'll have some more time this weekend to tinker with it."

Just to make sure... rodents like the far back right corner in side the fan tunnel. They come from the bottom or through the fan. There is no way to see this but by removing the front tunnel cover and looking in with a flashlight. If a mess is discovered, I would remove both carbs, back section of the tunnel, and do a good clean up with compressed air, vacuum cleaner or even pressure washer if you dare.

One of those nests can melt that fourth cylinder on a hot summer day in a little traffic.

Re: Sitting 4+ years, checklist for resurrection...

Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:24 am
by Get2work
boeing7873 wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:17 pm
"Air filter is fine. No mice remnants anywhere to be found. Hopefully I'll have some more time this weekend to tinker with it."

Just to make sure... rodents like the far back right corner in side the fan tunnel. They come from the bottom or through the fan. There is no way to see this but by removing the front tunnel cover and looking in with a flashlight. If a mess is discovered, I would remove both carbs, back section of the tunnel, and do a good clean up with compressed air, vacuum cleaner or even pressure washer if you dare.

One of those nests can melt that fourth cylinder on a hot summer day in a little traffic.
Thanks - I will certainly check that out.

Re: Sitting 4+ years, checklist for resurrection...

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:21 pm
by Get2work
Well, not having much luck here. Batteries aren't my problem. It will crank several revolutions (slowly) then die out. BUT, I cannot get this thing to turn by hand. This has me baffled... It's like it has a restriction, or something holding it back.

Thoughts?

Re: Sitting 4+ years, checklist for resurrection...

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:42 pm
by rmel
Doesn't sound good.

If it were me, I'd pull the plugs to see if Manual cranking becomes easier.
If not then the next step would be peering into the cylinders with a
borescope. It really should be relatively easy to turn by hand with the
plugs out.

One other thing I'd look at is to see if the starter gear is permanently stuck
in place, that would make it hard to crank by hand due to the huge gear
reduction. You could see this by pulling the access cover off the floor in
the rear of the truck then remove a small cover off the top of the Bell housing.
You can see the clutch slave, and the business end of starter just just below
the slave, might need the borescope to see deep. If that gear is engaged
that might explain it -- it should retract in the off position.

If that checks out, you may have a motor ceasing problem. Typically when a
Pinz motor fails it's a top end problem not the crank or cam. The top end can
be serviced with the motor in place. But this *may* be a main bearing -- don't know.

Re: Sitting 4+ years, checklist for resurrection...

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:25 pm
by Get2work
Thanks, I’ll give that a shot. I was planning to pull the starter at some point anyway to clean up all the corrosion.


Donny
1979 Pinz 710M
Located in Southwest Ohio

Re: Sitting 4+ years, checklist for resurrection...

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:45 pm
by tgreening
Do you know the PO personally, or just as a seller? If the latter you've probably found why it hasn't started in 4(6) yrs. The symptoms sound an awful lot like a seized engine.

SW Ohio. Cincy area? I'm up in the Canton area.

Re: Sitting 4+ years, checklist for resurrection...

Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:32 am
by Get2work
I know him only as a seller. I will say he is a straight up guy - no BS (although not at all mechanically inclined).

I called him last night to go over the symptoms again. He explained it left him stranded a couple of times with this same issue. He would drive it somewhere, park it, go to get back in and it would not crank over. He had a friend help him get it running, who said it was likely the starter, but he never wanted to purchase one until he found a capable shop to do the repair.

I asked him if he believed it possible the motor is seized up, or if anything catastrophic happened that he recalls (white/blue smoking, over-rev, died suddenly), he said absolutely not.

I take this all with a grain of salt. It doesn't mean it's not seized, just that he's not aware of it.

Proceeding with cautious optimism...
tgreening wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:45 pm
SW Ohio. Cincy area? I'm up in the Canton area.
Yes sir, good to meet you.

Re: Sitting 4+ years, checklist for resurrection...

Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:35 am
by rmel
Starter sounding a bit more like a possibility, given the PO's comments.
A stuck pinion gear, possibly a bad wedged solenoid.

Again most Alternator/Starter rebuild shops can handle this starter.
It's a 24V Bosch, it's a pretty common housing, bushings, and pinion,
with the exception of the solenoid, and Stator winding for 24V.

I did replace mine with a new EI "gear reduced" starter,
https://expedition-imports.com/PZGRST
new Solenoids, and some of the Starter parts are available at EI and SAV.

I did get my old starter rebuilt as a spare at a local shop in San Jose.