2.5 to 2.7 liter conversion

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Erik712m
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Post by Erik712m »

lindenengineering wrote: Eric
I have been in touch with Jim several times this & last week about various things and this thread came up for humorous discourse between us! :lol:

Well, considering Jim Hasn't posted!!! And I consider Him A friend? And how I've talked to him by phone and seen him post on the forum, about his 2.66 or 2.7l build. I Don't believe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jim Have any thing to say???? Are you of the old school as some have posted in the past talk behind the back but not out loud?





By the way the Braveheart film to reiterate was very inaccurate on many things and should be taken in the context it was made--Hollywood entertainment!
Dennis
Agree but doesn't stop urban slangs, after all I've seen shop organization!!! :shock: :shock: :shock: Read (my) post I believe I Posted mels Version.


I think I've brought up ten-second toms before. But only some get it.. Again fictional


I only posted on the one I had driven!!!!! Herbs. If I had Driven Jim's I would have posted much like Michael did or dif if it didn't preform.
Last edited by Erik712m on Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
lindenengineering
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Post by lindenengineering »

Guys although a bit off topic I thought I would post this link to Gloucester since Eric had mentioned a particular part of English history inextricably linked to American history as the web site will demonstrate.
Observe the American connection on the side thumb nail.
http://www.gloucestercathedral.org.uk/i ... rd-ii-tomb
Dennis
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lindenengineering
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Post by lindenengineering »

Eric
I have "done" or "undone" at the customer's requests no fewer than 17 of these conversions. Of those 17, thirteen were done elswhere and needed rectification when presented by my customers in my shop.
Like I wrote in this thread, I can't say that I was entirely happy with the performance at this altitude in Denver and above. Of the units that were rectified 5 went back to 2.5 litre (one was mine). The rest are out there scudding about I suppose with happy customers. What I can say is that the Pinzgauers that were used for work fared less well than hobby/recreational users
What more can I state?
Oh by the way--on emissions the Gov catagorizes green hybrid vehicles under 5 emission catagories. Like it or not the Prius (02 to 04) has an impressive E figure, and the latest 2006 on, is even better and has moved up a rung.
I intend to be fixing these machines by next year, like it or not they are part of the future and cannot be ignored as a fad.
Dennis
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totaljoint
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Post by totaljoint »

I'm putting a bumper sticker on the back of my 712:
"My other car is a Prius!"
Since we've wandered about on engines, why has no one come up with a Japanese implant- Honda or Toyota for the Pinz. Reliable, small, acceptable emissions and good torque..?
Erik712m
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Post by Erik712m »

totaljoint wrote:I'm putting a bumper sticker on the back of my 712:
"My other car is a Prius!"
Since we've wandered about on engines, why has no one come up with a Japanese implant- Honda or Toyota for the Pinz. Reliable, small, acceptable emissions and good torque..?

Again you haven't driven Alans pinz with auto off road no stall. Have I mentioned I'm on my third clutch plate? K.C. Were are you on the auto?
Jim LaGuardia
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Post by Jim LaGuardia »

Erik, I have been swamped with litttle time to reply.
Most of this debate has been hashed before and I like to let people make up their own minds before money is spent on engine upgrades.

Performance is gained, and fuel economy varies slightly.
The critical part is proper machining and clearancing of the components.
Forged pistons require more clearance as they expand more than cast pistons, therefore a modded engine may tend to rattle more when cold.
If the alloy of the forged piston is not consistant, skirt damage can occour.
Therefore I now only use one source for my piston specs.

Jim Mettler has a 2.7L with the high torque cam (and sequential EFI)in his 712W and lives above 5000ft, he has reported good results and increased power output.

I hope to get my engine new finished soon, but customers trucks come first :o
I am testing a HP grind on the cam.
Once finished , it goes to the dyno to verify results.

BTW, one of my EFI kits is running on an SDS computer with excellent results reported so far.
Cheers, Jim LaGuardia
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v510/Goatwerks/
"Arch Magus of Machines."
lindenengineering
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Post by lindenengineering »

totaljoint
It has--A Suzuki engine--done locally.
I cannot give you any details on performance since I have never seen it close up.
The engine is of course a regular 4 cycle unit not an Atkinson cycle engine as used in the Prius.
Cheers Dennis
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pinztrek
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Post by pinztrek »

lindenengineering wrote:Alan
Sorry ol mate but you are a bit off base on the emissions!
I respectfully disagree. You've made quite a leap from guilting us about driving polluting pinzgauers to trying to have an EFI pinz meet post '81 emissions.

My original comment stands: "I'd put a properly tuned EFI pinz against any carb vehicle and most pre-OBD EFI".

IE: If you want to be green and reduce your HC emissions, it's possible.

Past that, there are many, many engines that just flat out could not meet later emissions even with EFI cat & smog pump/EGR. You won't find many long stroke engines in production for that reason, the oversquare ones are just easier to meet emissions!

But your point was somehow that emissions would kill pinz usage, when if they get us, they'll have to eliminate all carb'd vehicles and many long stroke EFI'd ones.

I know CO is challenged with E testing, as is CA. One of the reasons I don't live in those states. CO looks nice if you could get rid of the Boulder influence. As described by a native: "Full of all the gray haired hippies whose's vans broke down trying to climb the rockies in the 60's.... yet not commited enough to find another way to San Francisco"

But in many states, it's more than just no testing, Instead, there is recognition that it's not productive to chase antiques, as there are not enough of them, nor are they driven enough. If serious about emissions, implement annual & spot inspections to get the tuner cars, worn out mini-vans belching blue & black smoke, etc. 1000:1 more impact just to enforce current regs better.

None of this prevents stroke of the pen bureaucratic changes like WDOT, etc. So you have to be politically active. In GA, there are bills floating around that help protect historic/collector/Antique vehicles.

Re: Hybrids..... the US is the only country in the world that makes diesels meet gas spec emissions tests. Does not look at the total emissions footprint, exceeding just one put's diesels in the penalty box even with a total lower emissions.

When hybrids start routinely beating the MPG/cost footprint of the millions of diesel rabbit's out there, I'll consider it a serious option.

There is something wrong when my 1 ton cummins ram get's better fuel mileage & lower emissions *towing a compact car* than that same car get's driving on it's own!

Then again I'm the guy who none of his vehicles qualified for "Cash for Clunkers" because they all were too good on MPG. :-)

2006 Passenger Sprinter (MB Diesel), 2003 Cummins Ram, '87 MB 300D, '86 Trooper turbo Diesel. Oops, I guess the pinz would have qualified, but it would not have fit in computer system!

Have fun,

Alan
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Jimm391730
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Post by Jimm391730 »

Jim Mettler has a 2.7L with the high torque cam (and sequential EFI)in his 712W and lives above 5000ft, he has reported good results and increased power output.
Yup, that I have. For what it's worth, I can say is that my 7500 lb vehicle performs quite nicely with the TD tranny with overdrive. With either the stock motor or the 2.62l (from actual calculations) I get about the same reduction of power at altitude (its been from -200 to almost 9,000 feet), but I got a full extra gear of performance with Jim's rebuild (bored cylinders, new pistons, and cam). It was botched up by SoCal, but Jim rebuilt it correctly for me and it has been purring along for the last three years (first year on carbs, second on batch fire EFI, and the last year with full sequential EFI). Mileage was not impacted much; I used to get 11-12mpg with the stock engine and now I get 12, sometimes upwards of 13 mpg. The biggest benifit of EFI for me was the cold starting and reduced warm up needed (I can drive off much faster in cold temps than with carbs). :D

Jim Mettler
712W and 710M
lindenengineering
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Post by lindenengineering »

Alan
With respect you are preaching to the choir!
Just like you I don't make the rules, the Gov does!

Jim391730
Good feedback---Hard at times to get info on longer running units.
Dennis
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ARVOps
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Post by ARVOps »

The Ugly Duck has one of Jim's motors. I have not had it up at altitude so I can’t talk about that.
The motor is just about broken in now and is making a noticeable difference in power. On the way back from Calico Mogfest she was accelerating up the grades.
I have driven a lot of Pinzgauers; including some nice FI 2.7Ls. I defiantly see and feel a difference with the 2.7L. it may not be much HP but when start with so little every bit helps.

Is it worth the cost? I already need a motor rebuild so the 2.7 was not much more and well worth it at that point.

Off road and in low range it doesn’t seem to make much difference. But on road the extra pep is welcome.
sold 712AMB/M 2.7L Goatwerks Power! UglyDuck living the life in Alaska :(
I am pinzless.
I'm at Poway Jeep If you all need a hook up on a Cummins, Hemi, Or a Jeep. PM me.
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