I have just completed a clutch job (new disc, pressure plate, release bearing and pilot bearing, skimmed the flywheel) on my 1972 model 710M. During a short test drive, I noticed a constant high tone/pitch sound from the clutch, however, once I apply my foot to the clutch pedal and after approx 2cm, the sound goes away (this happens before actual take-up). It cannot be the release bearing so, the following is a quote from my 1972, 710M manual. “Determined by tolerance, the exchange of clutch disc and (or) pressure plate can lead to the fact that the minimum release travel (8mm) in the clutch output cylinder will not be reached anymore (figure 92). In this case use thrust bolt being longer by 2mm with one identification groove (figure 92/5) pos. no. 712.2.16.102.1. In the case of stock removal at the flywheel being than 1mm, use thrust bolt with two identification grooves pos. no. 712.3.16.102.1, designed for repairs.”
My surrent bolt look like this: http://www.pinzgauer.com/showdetails.ph ... 123161021/
Does this mean:
a) that I am the first guy who did a clutch job on my vehicle (i.e. the parts that I have just removed was of original 1972 stock) and;
b) that I now need to order a new thrust bolt as well? (the current bolt measures 156mm, it has a 5mm wide groove on the slave cylinder side and some ring markings (not a groove) on the release fork side. Does this mean that I need to order a new bolt (part number 712.3.16.102.1)? If this bolt is not in stock, is it possible to manufacture one (I am in South Africa and orders do take a considerable amount of time to reach us).
Call me a “doffie”, but I don’t get it – which bolt is the longer and by how much? Which bolt should I use? Maybe ask my local engineering shop to machine 2mm from the current (156mm long) one?
More chirping ...
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lindenengineering
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First a question.
Forget the chirping for a moment! Does the clutch "clear" upon pedal depression and give you a crunch free shifting of gears--Then does it engage smoothly without judder?
If so, then the pushrod is OK for the application. Generally a short pushrod causes no clutch clearance causing difficult or no engagement of gears.
2nd Question
How much take up clearance do you have at the clutch pedal, an inch of free play is nominal before you feel hydraulic pressure.
3rd Question
This reported "chirping"--does it take occur once the clutch is freed, or upon slight take up?
The latter question is important to understand what's going in.
Dennis
Forget the chirping for a moment! Does the clutch "clear" upon pedal depression and give you a crunch free shifting of gears--Then does it engage smoothly without judder?
If so, then the pushrod is OK for the application. Generally a short pushrod causes no clutch clearance causing difficult or no engagement of gears.
2nd Question
How much take up clearance do you have at the clutch pedal, an inch of free play is nominal before you feel hydraulic pressure.
3rd Question
This reported "chirping"--does it take occur once the clutch is freed, or upon slight take up?
The latter question is important to understand what's going in.
Dennis
OOOps no customer bashing now
Hi Dennis, as for your first question, I have tested the shifting through all 12 gears – smooth take-up with absolutely no judder (the release-bearing definitely travel far enough forward to free the pressure plate and disc completely). As for your second question, I have approx. 1” of clearance before I feel the hydraulic pressure of actual take-up. As for your third question, the chirping only occurs when my foot is completely off the pedal. The moment I put my foot on the pedal to take-up the above-mentioned 1” clearance, the chirping stops completely (by the way the chirping varies along with the engine revs…). The chirping definitely does not occur upon slight take-up. Any ideas?
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lindenengineering
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OK
With those responses its the release bearing.
Chirping is a common clutch problem related to the the release bearing or fork operating the bearing itself.
As you can imagine (I think) the release bearing is in light contact with the pressure plate fingers by virtue of the fact that it is self adjusting clutch.
Obvious this is where the chirp is occurring. Once pressure is applied to the bearing the noise stops due to thrust --since it is or should be a thrust type radial ball race inside the housing.
If the bearing is a new Steyr/clutch makers approved thrust bearing then I would be inclined to take a close look at the fork where the bearing is attached or the pivot ball onto where it seats.
Since the bearing slides on a sleeve I would take a close look at the "travel" section for wear steps etc.
At the same time I would also be looking to see if one of the clutch fingers on the diaphragm clutch isn't or hasn't got deformed.
If all that looks good, I have had very isolated cases of a "grounch" type noisy take up where the clutch plate vibrates on the flywheel face much like a brake "grounch" but I don't think this is what you are experiencing.
In many cases I might also take the tack of letting it develop and see if in fact it goes away since it is your own vehicle. Obviously if it was a customer's truck then it would have to be attended to..
Hope that helps
Dennis
With those responses its the release bearing.
Chirping is a common clutch problem related to the the release bearing or fork operating the bearing itself.
As you can imagine (I think) the release bearing is in light contact with the pressure plate fingers by virtue of the fact that it is self adjusting clutch.
Obvious this is where the chirp is occurring. Once pressure is applied to the bearing the noise stops due to thrust --since it is or should be a thrust type radial ball race inside the housing.
If the bearing is a new Steyr/clutch makers approved thrust bearing then I would be inclined to take a close look at the fork where the bearing is attached or the pivot ball onto where it seats.
Since the bearing slides on a sleeve I would take a close look at the "travel" section for wear steps etc.
At the same time I would also be looking to see if one of the clutch fingers on the diaphragm clutch isn't or hasn't got deformed.
If all that looks good, I have had very isolated cases of a "grounch" type noisy take up where the clutch plate vibrates on the flywheel face much like a brake "grounch" but I don't think this is what you are experiencing.
In many cases I might also take the tack of letting it develop and see if in fact it goes away since it is your own vehicle. Obviously if it was a customer's truck then it would have to be attended to..
Hope that helps
Dennis
OOOps no customer bashing now
I have replaced all the clutch components with Fichtel & Sachs parts from Swiss Army Vehicles (so it should be Styer approved). The release bearing is brand new, and I have used a movable jack to insert the gearbox (it went in very smoothly, so I do not think I have damaged some fingers). I have also inspected the sleeve upon which the bearing slides when the gear box was dismounted – nice and smooth with no wear. So, I’ll settle for your last suggestion – let this one slide (for now) and see how things develop. Thank's for the advice!
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lindenengineering
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The extra length push rods are specified to accommodate service rectification where material is removed from the flywheel face.
Essentially you are in effect moving the clutch pack away from the release bearing fulcrum point as metal is removed to reclaim a flywheel.
(I think you can appreciate that the clutch is being physically moved away from the box when metal is removed from the flywheel.)
Originally there were two clutch packs which have now been rationalized and that dictated different length push rods.
These days we come across this problem only occasionally where a new clutch pack dictates a push rod. In practical terms we simply install the box, and the first thing is to insert the push rod. Select a speed manually and try the clutch by trying to rotate the drive flange by hand. Once depressed the running pack can be spun easily in this manner, and this also gives us an idea on how and when the take up is being actioned.
If there is any problems at that stage, its is an easy task to drop the box and investigate or insert a different push rod.
Dennis
Essentially you are in effect moving the clutch pack away from the release bearing fulcrum point as metal is removed to reclaim a flywheel.
(I think you can appreciate that the clutch is being physically moved away from the box when metal is removed from the flywheel.)
Originally there were two clutch packs which have now been rationalized and that dictated different length push rods.
These days we come across this problem only occasionally where a new clutch pack dictates a push rod. In practical terms we simply install the box, and the first thing is to insert the push rod. Select a speed manually and try the clutch by trying to rotate the drive flange by hand. Once depressed the running pack can be spun easily in this manner, and this also gives us an idea on how and when the take up is being actioned.
If there is any problems at that stage, its is an easy task to drop the box and investigate or insert a different push rod.
Dennis
OOOps no customer bashing now
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undysworld
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lindenengineering
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Hello Paul
And if its not too late a belated Happy New to you and family.
Yes I thought I would have a "scout around" this web site before shutting shop. Glad I did nice to hear from old friends on this forum.
Take care and as always I am happy to share the "knowledge"
Cheers Dennis
And if its not too late a belated Happy New to you and family.
Yes I thought I would have a "scout around" this web site before shutting shop. Glad I did nice to hear from old friends on this forum.
Take care and as always I am happy to share the "knowledge"
Cheers Dennis
OOOps no customer bashing now
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cruzoropeza
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- Location: Los Angeles, CA
Re: More chirping ...
I have a question regarding a noise similar to the one posted here just that it happens at a different type and I have not replaced my clutch..... Here it goes it's happend around 5 times when I'm on the highway around 55-60 miles an hour I start hearing a high ptch noise almost like a whine but not like gear whine a little smoother nothing feels weird or vibrates...... As soon as I start slowing down to about 3/4 to 1/2 the speed it goes away and everything goes back to normal, the weird thing is some times it happens and sometimes under the same conditions it doesn't, I've also noticed in the past few day that gears are not going in ass smooth as before. Could this all be signs that i need a new clutch? (clutch has not felt like its slipping) Thanks for your guy's time!!!
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cruzoropeza
- Posts: 126
- Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:15 am
- Location: Los Angeles, CA
Re: More chirping ...
I have a question regarding a noise similar to the one posted here just that it happens at a different type and I have not replaced my clutch..... Here it goes it's happend around 5 times when I'm on the highway around 55-60 miles an hour I start hearing a high ptch noise almost like a whine but not like gear whine a little smoother nothing feels weird or vibrates...... As soon as I start slowing down to about 3/4 to 1/2 the speed it goes away and everything goes back to normal, the weird thing is some times it happens and sometimes under the same conditions it doesn't, I've also noticed in the past few day that gears are not going in ass smooth as before. Could this all be signs that i need a new clutch? (clutch has not felt like its slipping) Thanks for your guy's time!!!