Oil additive to reduce gear friction - thoughts

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Jake2015
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Oil additive to reduce gear friction - thoughts

Post by Jake2015 » Thu May 24, 2018 12:32 am

I came across this:

Archoil AR9100 Friction Modifier

It is an oil additive which “forms a solid boundary lubricating film to reduce friction and provide anti-wear, extreme pressure and anti-corrosion protection to engines, gearboxes and hydraulic systems. AR9100 will result in smoother, more powerful and more efficient operation. AR9100 will reduce wear and help prevent failures during extreme operating conditions. AR9100 also helps keep the crankcase clean and extends oil life.”

With all the gears in a Pinz drivetrain, I’m wondering if this would be a good investment. Anyone have any experience with this or similar product?
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Re: Oil additive to reduce gear friction - thoughts

Post by VinceAtReal4x4s » Thu May 24, 2018 1:57 am

Archoil is the real deal but as far as noise in a Pinz diff, who knows until it's tried. Liqui Moly also makes something similar and I use their stuff on my G. Redline makes a shockproof gear-oil too which has been talked about here some. I use it in my transfer case.
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Re: Oil additive to reduce gear friction - thoughts

Post by rmel » Thu May 24, 2018 4:47 pm

Your primary protection is the quality of the Gear and Engine Oil you pour into your cases.
Additives are secondary at best and most have no value add.

Engine oil should have the proper level of ZDDP. Off the shelf Oil today DOES NOT. The
Z in ZDDP is Zinc and provides bond to high wear surfaces acting as a sacrificial layer. The
solid lifters/Cam is the highest wear point in our engine and needs this protection. Modern
Engines use roller-lifters. Use oil for Diesel engines, which still has sufficient levels of ZDDP
or "Classic car" oil, just check that these oils are designed specifically for solid lifter wear
protection. Otherwise you will pit your lifters and wear your cam -- eventually. Why ZDDP is
at such low levels is because it attacks the Platinum in the cat converts.

Most brand Gear Oils are good; Mobil, Lucas etc. The synthetics e.g. Redline for the Tranie and
X-case are good.

Now to be controversial, many of the additives are more marketing fluff than anything else.
Just try going to one of these additive companies WEB site and find anyone on the management
team that has a history in Chemical engineering -- good luck. In many cases you won't even
find who runs these companies W/O digging a lot deeper into registries. Most of these firms
are private, not public, 10 to 15 people, essentially buying and rebranding other peoples stuff.

I do use an additive in my Engine, this is more for corrosion and wear reduction. This is out
of the Aviation industry where you can find real test reports and FAA endorsement. I spent a fair
amount of time researching this and fell onto Camguard, which was actually developed by an
Ex-Exxon Chemical engineer who ran a development team there and decided to roll is own.
There's a decent amount lab evidence this reduces corrosion and wear based on lab engine oil
analysis. With the truck sitting more than driving in the winter months I wanted to minimize
corrosion as much as possible. The oil I use is Aviation grade, which is a very different formulation
than for cars, it's ashless and basically engineered for air-cooled engines.

Here's an article from a well respected Aviation guy Mike Busch, about additives -- more for airplanes.
https://www.savvyaviation.com/wp-conten ... -stuff.pdf
Puller: 71' 710K 2.7L EFI aka Mozo
Follower: Sankey MK 3, 3/4 Tonne
Rescue Pinz: 73' 712M

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Re: Oil additive to reduce gear friction - thoughts

Post by pinzi » Fri May 25, 2018 8:01 am

I just use 85w140 in my diffs and transfer case, dous reduce the sound a bit but you will never get completley still. There are just to manny turning parts and vibrations in the pinz drive train. :roll:
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Re: Oil additive to reduce gear friction - thoughts

Post by TechMOGogy » Fri May 25, 2018 2:18 pm

I have seen this but have not used yet
http://www.cam-shield.com/acatalog/technical.html
72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 94 350GDT | 96 350GDT Worker

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Re: Oil additive to reduce gear friction - thoughts

Post by VinceAtReal4x4s » Fri May 25, 2018 2:50 pm

Archoil is absolutely legitimate. It's part of the boron/nano family of friction reducing additives.

I personally know someone who put it into a Ford diesel because he had overwhelming advice from other owners and two Ford mechanics who said it will cure the well known stiction issues they have. (7.3 diesel I think?) It 100% changed his start ups, esp. in cold weather, and solved his injection issues and all he did was add Archoil. No oil could solve his problem before that. He kind of laughed out of shock that something like that could work so well... he never buys "additives".

Check out Jay Leno's guest from Archoil. His head mechanic uses it on Jay's priceless cars. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3ir3bg0ESU

Edit: This isn't the guy I know but exactly what I was talking about! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEbNdnEJX9Q

Who knows what it might do for a Pinz but it might be worth a try.
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Re: Oil additive to reduce gear friction - thoughts

Post by rmel » Fri May 25, 2018 3:21 pm

Boron Nano-lubricants do show a lot of promise. Several technical papers
with lab results. Best work done by Argonne Lab by Ali Erdemir who pretty
much was the sole guy behind the discovery. That work was sponsored in
part by Valvoline and Cummins.

I don't question the science but I question the source.

Many of these small operators in the additive business are scams. I don't
know about Archoil. But what I do is research on a company before I use
their products. Archoil is private, as such there's no filings to review, a bit
more worrisome is a complete lack of traceability to a management team
with credentials -- NOTHING. Their one building in CT is clearly not a
manufacturing site, no patents filed, no technical papers on their WEB site.
To me this looks like a re-seller/re-brander operation. It could very well be
great stuff, I just would not chugalug that stuff down my engine without
knowing more about the people behind the product. Not one technical
person could be found, that is sometime companies brag about. There's
so many of these Boron guys out there today I would not be too surprised
they all go to the same "Master Blender" with a tweak here and there and
then slap their label on it. Again may be great stuff, but I don't like
deception. You can find pretty much the same story with Boronlub.com,
Altboron.com, and several others. Of them all Altboron.com parent
company is Advanced Lubrication Technology Inc, where I have found
patent disclosures from real Chem PhD's. The product name sucks though
"Engine Silk". This company is tiny from the number of people employed,
no apparent factory, so I'm betting it all goes back to some Generic blender
out there who adds what you want. I'd rather see this coming from the
big boys like Valvoline, Phillips, Mobile etc etc. so it's just in the base Oil
as a given. Although I have not seen any harmful long term reliability
side-effect reported on Boron nano, that work apparently is still underway
at Cummings.

ron
Puller: 71' 710K 2.7L EFI aka Mozo
Follower: Sankey MK 3, 3/4 Tonne
Rescue Pinz: 73' 712M

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steyr92
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Re: Oil additive to reduce gear friction - thoughts

Post by steyr92 » Mon May 28, 2018 8:59 am

hey guys :D
i have oiladditives in every transmisson and in the engine and i can tell that the before and after is significant.
when i bought my 710m and drove it home the noise frome the drivetrain was like every pinz i drove in the austrian army pretty noisy. so i put from liqui moly the proline gear oil additve in which is based on mos2 an after about 100km it got much more quiet. shifting gears also got better . additive is about 1% of filling. in the x-case i put 2%.
also in the engine i put the mos2 additve from lm but more for wear concerns and lubrication reserve when cold started. i got very good results with it in other olde diesl engines from the 1930´s where nearly no wear from the whitemetal bearings occured so i i schould help there as well. also as an additional help for the camshaft and tappets. lm recommds the mos2 additive if there is a lack of zddp . and yes the additve goes through the engine oilfilter. here in austria i think its similar as somewhere else when it comes to additives, one recommends it an the other one say its all scam. but the results where i tested it speak for them self.

greets from austria
simon

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Re: Oil additive to reduce gear friction - thoughts

Post by rmel » Mon May 28, 2018 12:16 pm

Your bringing up a good point -- there are some good Additive products on the market.

And Liqui Moly is a very good example of a company that you can actually get some key facts on.

First, this is not a small time operator, their annual revenue is nearing Half a Billion U.S.D. that
is a pretty large Private (German) company. They invest in R&D, in 2016 dropped $25M into that.
There are patents you can review, there are over 700 people employed, you can get your hands
on tech papers and reports.

Again, IMHO I like to be able to know who's behind a company, see how they do stuff, and Liqui Moly,
it's pretty easy to do that. I haven't used LM products myself, but it's been out there longer than
most.
Puller: 71' 710K 2.7L EFI aka Mozo
Follower: Sankey MK 3, 3/4 Tonne
Rescue Pinz: 73' 712M

Driver: Ron // KO0Q

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Re: Oil additive to reduce gear friction - thoughts

Post by steyr92 » Wed May 30, 2018 4:53 pm

thank you :D first of all i wont make marketing for a specific company just telling my results i got with them :D but
beside that, the reason why i chose lm is amongst other things, i´m sure there are many ohter good companys out there making good stuff, is that it´s one of the least companys who has a tech forum, tech hotline and email customer support where your questions get answered very precise. didnt found that on much other companys.
but for futher information if you guys a intrested which products the some pinz drivers from the austrian forum uses i have here a short list: wagner micro ceramic, mathy T
greets

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Re: Oil additive to reduce gear friction - thoughts

Post by VinceAtReal4x4s » Thu May 31, 2018 2:10 am

My G is filled with LM products, from Ceratec in the engine, to Moly treatments in the diffs and tranfercase, and an annual diesel purge treatment. I use Royal Purple for gear oil these days but LM makes great stuff too. Sometimes it's about price and/or what's practically available though Amazon is making it easy to pick and choose here in the US. LM is hard to find in US stores but my NAPA carries it, oddly enough. Along with Amsoil and Redline, they are both top tier companies/oils for sure.
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Re: Oil additive to reduce gear friction - thoughts

Post by Twin Pinzies » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:56 pm

I just did a Liqui-Moly (Lubro-Moly) engine treatment at my last oil change.
There was an immediate and noticeable improvement at cold starts and the way it ran in general. Then I started dealing with fouled plugs, black oil, and weird running. So I changed out the oil and filter again and noticed this:

1. The engine is running much smoother than normal.
2. The oil is staying cleaner longer and didn't turn dark as quickly as usual.
3. My plug fouling problem hasn't stopped, but it has improved since after the treatment.

I'd say go ahead and try an engine treatment... but just be prepared to bail out on it with a secondary fresh oil change shortly after doing it if things start getting weird.

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Re: Oil additive to reduce gear friction - thoughts

Post by steyr92 » Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:25 am

what kind of treatment did you make?
flush or moly ?
and what is lubro moly ?

greets

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Re: Oil additive to reduce gear friction - thoughts

Post by Twin Pinzies » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:43 am

steyr92 wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:25 am
what kind of treatment did you make?
flush or moly ?
and what is lubro moly ?

greets
Liqui-Moly and Lubro-Moly are the same thing, just labeled differently.
I used the "engine friction treatment."

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Re: Oil additive to reduce gear friction - thoughts

Post by pinzi » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:00 am

Hello

Just a question but my 716 is making That typical wining noise when driving 80/90 km/u on the road and for short trips it doesnt botter me That much but when taking a long trip it becomes quit annoying. I already put a higher garde oil in my drivetrain and reductions (85w140) so it can deal with the heat and gives better lubracation but it only made the noise a bit less noise.....yes i know That it is a typical pinz thing, been driving them allmost 20 years (710 s) and they all do this but having them just a bit less noisy would be Nice. So are there Anny good additives out there That can do this and have some of you Tried this.....all answers are apriciated :mrgreen:
off-road until i die

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