truck won't move

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bbonomo
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:39 pm

truck won't move

Post by bbonomo »

Hi folks,
I recently returned from Treffen where my truck ran great. I've never had any drivetrain problems, until I returned. Nothing unusual happened at Treffen.

The week after I returned and my truck had been sitting I started my truck and attempted to put it in reverse to back out of my spot. It wouldn't go, so I took it out of gear and put it back in, released the clutch, felt some resistance and it (somewhat violently) popped into gear. Thought it was strange and knew it was something that I'd need to keep an eye on.

A week later I started it to drive after several days of sitting and had the same thing happen as I put it into first gear to drive forward. It was basically a loud pop as it went into gear and the vehicle moved. It ran well the rest of that day without incident.

Two weeks later (today) I piled the family in and now I can't get it into drive or reverse. The engine runs fine, but the resistance against the motor with whatever is happening in the drivetrain isn't enough to get it to "pop" into gear. The engine just dies as I try to go forward or reverse. The drivetrain seems to be locked in place.

Is this indicative of a clutch problem, or something more serious?

Thanks!
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Mead
Canada
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Location: Barrie, ON, Canada

Re: truck won't move

Post by Mead »

Just a guess but is the transfer case fully engaged either in hi or low range?
Josh
Barrie, Ontario, Canada
'82 - 712AMB/M
bbonomo
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:39 pm

Re: truck won't move

Post by bbonomo »

Thanks for the reply Josh. Yes, I verified this by checking both the high and low range. It definitely feels like it's trying to push against something. I hope that makes sense. It's almost like I'm physically nosed up against a wall and as I release the clutch it feels like the truck wants to lurch forward (or backwards when I try reverse), but the engine dies because the transmission won't engage.
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pcolette
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Location: Southwest Wisconsin

Re: truck won't move

Post by pcolette »

Try jacking up either the front or the rear of your Pinz and with the trans in neutral see if the wheels turn freely with little drag - they should. If not, is it possible that during the Treffen you got some mud or other debris in your wheels or brakes?

Also check to make sure that your emergency/parking brake is releasing fully.
Paul C.
_________
'73 Swiss 710M
'89 Puch 230GE
undysworld
Norway
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Location: Blue Mounds, WI

Re: truck won't move

Post by undysworld »

check the transmission for free movement. I had a similar resistance, and when I started moving forward heard a big pop. When I got home again, I noticed the gear lube spread about 1/2 mile from the gigantic hole blown in the side of the transmission case. A small clip was found in the bottom, which had apparently broken allowing a gear to move too far internally. Hopefully if this is your situation, you can fix it without destroying your tranny. IIRC, it cost me $2500 for a replacement.
bbonomo
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Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:39 pm

Re: truck won't move

Post by bbonomo »

How will I know if the parking brake is disengaging completely? I can see the spring loaded lever in the back of the truck move with the brake handle in the front. The plunger on the witches hat doesn't move much, but it moves in and out w the lever. Any advice in that regard would be helpful.

I will try putting it in neutral and moving the truck to ensure that the transmission moves freely
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VinceAtReal4x4s
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Re: truck won't move

Post by VinceAtReal4x4s »

Like was said above, I'm going to guess it's the emergency brake. I had this happen a few times when I had a 710. You may need to get in there and clean it up, esp. if it was exposed to water/mud.
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undysworld
Norway
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Location: Blue Mounds, WI

Re: truck won't move

Post by undysworld »

I'm not sure how you'd ensure that the e-brake is disengaging, other than testing it functionally or tearing it apart. There's a couple of discs in there that could well be gunked up with debris. Here's what I'd do to try and locate the problem/s.

Put both the transmission and the transfer cases in neutral. See if you can turn the exposed drive (propeller) shaft, it should turn pretty freely. If not, then have someone depress your clutch and again try to spin the shaft. If the transmission has problems, the shaft may not spin freely (spinning doesn't preclude the tranny having problems, but if it's locked up or feels bad then it indicates that it probably does have issues). If it spins freely, then I'd jack the rear end of the truck off the ground and see whether you can spin both wheels at the same time (lock that diff by depressing the center locker lever). If the rear wheels don't spin, then it could well be the e-brake.
bbonomo
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Re: truck won't move

Post by bbonomo »

Thanks for the suggestions folks!
bbonomo
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:39 pm

Re: truck won't move

Post by bbonomo »

Thanks again to everyone that contributed. I disassembled and removed the e-brake from the Pinz. Once I did that the vehicle moved freely again. I didn't know what I was looking at as I took it apart, so I can't say what exactly was happening with the brake, but I think logic would dictate that dirt and crud from Treffen wouldn't allow the brake to disengage. I have disassembled the brake itself and have applied copious amounts of break cleaner. I also wiped quite a bit of mud and debris off of the inside of the housing.

I plan to reassemble the brake today. I have attached photos to see if anything sticks out to anyone with a sharper mechanical eye. These photos were taken prior to disassembly and cleaning. I don't know how much one can tell from the pictures, but I'm wondering if the pads are still in decent shape.

Also, the service manual indicates that this housing should be waterproof. I think I proved otherwise, but understand that 40 years of wear and vibration could have created an opportunity for water to seep in when we had a couple of water crossings. Would it be a bad idea to line the seam of the witches hat and the end of the center tube with RTV?

Thanks!
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GRCameron
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Re: truck won't move

Post by GRCameron »

If the brake friction discs aren't worn so much that the rivets rub they should be ok. Clean then up with some brake cleaner spray. The central expanding brake disc consists of two steel plates with 3 bearing balls in cones between then. The assembly is held together by 3 short, stiff springs. A linkage causes the plates to rotate with respect to each other causing the balls to climb the cones. Net result is that the plates are forced apart. This assembly can get very gunked up but should respond to some solvent and perhaps a pressure washer. Grease the 3 balls when reassembling the plates so they move freely. Since the expanding disc doesn't rotate, it won't sling grease onto the friction discs. Service and adjustment is described in the repair manual.

There should be a rubber boot (7101353601) that protects the brake assembly where the linkage exits the housing. Perhaps this is damaged or missing and allowing debris to enter the assembly.

My IH 354 utility tractor used the same brake system, one set for each rear wheel. They are quite effective.
George Cameron
Yarnell, AZ
1979 Pinz 710M
Molon Labe
bbonomo
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Re: truck won't move

Post by bbonomo »

The brake went back on without issue (too much issue anyway). I'm no mechanic, but I'm pretty sure the gaping hole on the front of the brake housing is the culbrit for all of the water and corrosion inside of the brake housing. The obvious fix would be to replace the housing, but that seems really expensive. Any suggestions for fixes that can be applied and checked regularly?
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TechMOGogy
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Re: truck won't move

Post by TechMOGogy »

Short of replacing it I would just build it up with some epoxy
72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 96 350GDT Worker
GRCameron
United States of America
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 7:32 pm
Location: Yarnell, AZ

Re: truck won't move

Post by GRCameron »

+1

JB Weld or Devcon Steel Epoxy will do it. The toughest part will be getting it really clean before you start. Once the epoxy is cured you can sand/file to match the contour. With a little paint you would never know the repair is there. It should last for years, or until the next big rock bashes that exact spot again.
George Cameron
Yarnell, AZ
1979 Pinz 710M
Molon Labe
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pcolette
United States of America
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Location: Southwest Wisconsin

Re: truck won't move

Post by pcolette »

+1 for the JB Weld.

Use their Kwik formula to prevent running. Awesome stuff!
Paul C.
_________
'73 Swiss 710M
'89 Puch 230GE
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