Brake Light issue

Dedicated to the memory and knowledge shared by Jim Mettler - All things relating to the flow of electrons in a Pinz.
User avatar
John L
United States of America
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:48 am
Location: Covington, Louisiana

Re: Brake Light issue

Post by John L » Mon May 14, 2012 8:17 pm

You all have been a lot of help. I'm narrowing in on the cause. I had power to the brake switch and power from the switch when the brake was depressed. Switch is good. I found the "cable connector" or "fuse box" in the back under the chasis. All of the tail light, turn signal, brake light wires feed into it. When I opened it I noted a white wire coming from the front that had corroded so much the pin had disintegrated on the "block". Since the wiring diagram doesn't show a white wire my guess is this is the problem. I'll check for power to it upon pressing the brake when I can get one of my boys to assist.

But, looking at the "block" I'm confused. How do you know what pin on one side connects to on the other? I've never seen one like this as it appears to spread power without an obvious pattern. Can I merely plug the wire to an open pin? Make a jumper wire and start randomly touching wires on the other side till I hit the right one?

I love fooling with this truck. I'm wondering if I should replace the fuse block???

Thanks for the input.

User avatar
John L
United States of America
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:48 am
Location: Covington, Louisiana

Re: Brake Light issue

Post by John L » Mon May 14, 2012 8:17 pm

You all have been a lot of help. I'm narrowing in on the cause. I had power to the brake switch and power from the switch when the brake was depressed. Switch is good. I found the "cable connector" or "fuse box" in the back under the chasis. All of the tail light, turn signal, brake light wires feed into it. When I opened it I noted a white wire coming from the front that had corroded so much the pin had disintegrated on the "block". Since the wiring diagram doesn't show a white wire my guess is this is the problem. I'll check for power to it upon pressing the brake when I can get one of my boys to assist.

But, looking at the "block" I'm confused. How do you know what pin on one side connects to on the other? I've never seen one like this as it appears to spread power without an obvious pattern. Can I merely plug the wire to an open pin? Make a jumper wire and start randomly touching wires on the other side till I hit the right one?

I love fooling with this truck. I'm wondering if I should replace the fuse block???

Thanks for the input.

User avatar
pcolette
United States of America
Posts: 1509
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:38 pm
Location: Southwest Wisconsin

Re: Brake Light issue

Post by pcolette » Mon May 14, 2012 9:16 pm

There were a couple of different junction blocks used - the older ones had screw terminals and the newer had spade terminals. Both work the same way in that the terminals directly across from each other are connected. They were not meant to spread power but only act as a junction point for the 2 rear wiring harnesses, left and right, to connect with the main wiring harness. The trailer wiring harness also connected in the junction box. If you take a look at the schematic you may be able to visualize what the designers were doing. You could do the same thing by using crimp on butt terminals or wire nuts but the junction box allows for easier wiring changes.

SAV carries both the old and new styles. Do a search on "connection box" to find them.

Hope this helps.
Paul C.
_________
'73 Swiss 710M
'89 Puch 230GE
2002 MB G500

User avatar
John L
United States of America
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:48 am
Location: Covington, Louisiana

Re: Brake Light issue

Post by John L » Tue May 15, 2012 7:47 am

Paul:

Thanks for the information. I'll definately do that. I thought I'd post about the results of my search. The white wire was a red herring (pun intended). First, I found out after the fact that the amber lights light up during braking, so this was original equipment without modification. Didn't know that till I found the source of my trouble. I decided to trace the wires and create my own schematic. White wires were tail lights. The broken one goes to the pin connector for trailer lights. No worries for me at the moment. White and black was turn signal for the drivers side. Green and black was turn signal to the passenger side. That only left two wires: pink and orange. No power to either. So, I went back and tested that power was going into the brake switch and coming out of the switch during application of the brake. I followed the "orange" wire coming off of the switch and it goes to the hazard switch. When I played with the connection at the hazard switch I found the short!!!!! So, I learned a ton about the wiring on my truck AND found the source of my trouble. It was late last night when I found it so I'll save the repair for another evening. But, as we all know, diagnosing the problem generally takes longer than fixing it. :D

I'm hoping the problem is related to the wires (two are joined going to a spade terminal) and will be fixed upon soldering on a new connection and joining the two together properly. If not, then I have a loose connection on the switch itself, which would be another problem to solve.

Through everyone's input I was able to track down a pesky electical issue and find a problem I didn't know I had previously. Thanks for the support and I hope my report helps someone in the future with a similar problem. I'll let you know when I get it completely fixed.

Thanks!!!!!!!!

John

User avatar
David Dunn
Posts: 2241
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 7:08 pm
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Brake Light issue

Post by David Dunn » Tue May 15, 2012 8:51 am

time for IQ test..
since the truck wasn't altered AND YOU Claim the turn signils do FLASH ( the rears).... THERE IS NO PROBLEM TO THE WIRES IN THE REAR! THE BRAKE LAMPS ARE the same filiment .... Of course that is if it really is a Swiss spec truck.
The problem is probably at the turn signal switch.... are you sure you didn't trip a breaker?

Thank goodness, I sold my manuals so I can't lookup the exact schematic and can wash my hands of this fiasco


Are there any bars open at 7 in the morning?....I didn't use to drink... :roll:
.
The Trojan Horse... the 1st Pinz used to covertly carry troops into battle .




ATL Pinzgauer XM 718K TUM(HD) 6x6 FFR (aka The Green Grail)

User avatar
John L
United States of America
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:48 am
Location: Covington, Louisiana

Re: Brake Light issue

Post by John L » Tue May 15, 2012 9:05 am

David:

I'm in New Orleans and bars are always open :D

There isn't a problem with the wires in the back of the truck. I had the brake lights temporarily operational last night. The problem is where the orange wire coming from the brake light switch connects to the hazard switch. Either the spade terminal is faulty (unlikely) or there isn't a good contact where the two orange wires join at the spade connector (female end). I think it's the latter; but needed sleep last night so didn't finish the project. I'll keep you posted. I now know the point of failure though.

You bring up a good point though: why do I have dual filiment bulbs for tail lights? (Red section of the lens) Seem unecessary as it's the top bulb (amber) that lights up when the brakes are applies as well as when the turn signals are used. They get exteremely hot. I wonder if I can replace those with LED bulbs (just the tail lights)?

John

User avatar
edzz
United States of America
Posts: 1309
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:13 am
Location: Coeur d'Alene, ID

Re: Brake Light issue

Post by edzz » Tue May 15, 2012 9:07 am

John L wrote:
David Dunn wrote:Before everyone get carried away.. is your truck to Swiss specs ( circuit breakers), or standard Austrian ( fuses)? The brake lamps on a Austrian spec truck has it's own filiment in the tail lamps and Swiss combines with the brakes and turns in one single filiment bulb. On either type truck, short the leads together (at the brake switch) and see if the lamps come on ( with power switch on... and check breakers or fuses). If it works, bad switch... if not, try wiggling turn indicator lever, as Jim said there is a set of contacts inside the switch that allow the turn and brake lamps to work together.
Lastly, some people have mucked up their wiring trying to convert the amber brake lamps to red on Swiss truck, if isn't done right....
John, Good questions and thanks for asking: It's a swiss vehicle, not Aussie. 1975 710M. It apparently had a conversion of the tail lamps and turn signals. The hazards and turn signals are amber and the brake light is red. The amber portion of the lens is at the top. John


Dave it's early , he indicted the truck is altered :twisted:

John, LED bulbs in rear should be OK if you want them. circuit should still hsve enough resistance from front bulbs to keep the flasher working. if not change flasher out for LED frendly flasher.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

User avatar
John L
United States of America
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:48 am
Location: Covington, Louisiana

Re: Brake Light issue

Post by John L » Thu May 17, 2012 12:10 pm

Well you have to love those electrical gremlins. The reason the stop lights weren't working was because of a loose spade bit on the back of the hazard switch. The orange wire from the brake switch goes into the hazard switch. I have worked on it and have it working: but will likely need to replace the switch. FYI to anyone else with this symptom. I'll check with Scott at EI about a replacement switch.

The more you do, the more you learn.

Thanks for the input guys.

John

newtopinz
United States of America
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:59 pm
Location: Monterey Bay area, CA

Re: Brake Light issue

Post by newtopinz » Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:52 pm

I have gone cross eyed trying to figure out what wrong with my Pinz, with searching forums and trying to understand the schematics. So I will ask for some help.

I have a 1971 Swiss 710 K. Looks to be stock lights, amber for turn and brake lights. The parking lights, and left and right turn signals work along with left brake and left hazard, but no right brake or right hazard lights. That alone tells me bulb is fine.

The connectors in the back of the pinz underneath looks to be in good condition, grounds are intact. I look at the jumble of wires under the dash and am unable to figure out what is what. I am hoping to get some guidance of what to do. I see what looks to be the brake light switch, hazard switch and flasher relay. I am unsure what that metal looking piece next to the flasher relay. Multimeter is on it's way (newbie here), but I was hoping to get some pointers of where to start checking.

As far as i can tell all the connection looks fine, no corrosion or anything.

Thanks in advance.

Kelvin
Attachments
wiring under dash.jpg
wiring under dash.jpg (699.97 KiB) Viewed 1835 times

whitesik
United States of America
Posts: 163
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:11 pm
Location: Indiana, U.S.A.

Re: Brake Light issue

Post by whitesik » Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:30 pm

the metal box next to the flasher is the headlight relay.
75 Swiss 710K
Not so new owner but still a novice

Post Reply