No Flashers & Brake Lights...

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O'ahuPinz
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No Flashers & Brake Lights...

Post by O'ahuPinz »

To any pizgauer geniuses out there, I am looking for a little direction. I have a strange problem with my lights. My headlights along with the running lights work AND my hazard flashers work fine too. What doesn't work are my right and left blinkers and my brake lights. I have no idea what happened - they just stopped working.

I took the flasher relay out and popped it into another pinz and it worked fine - so that's not the problem. When I put it back in however, it's just dead. It seems as if there's no power going to the switch. Does that make sense? Has anyone experienced something like that? Are the brake lights and flashers connected?

I can continue poking around but if anyone has some advice or could steer me in the right direction based on what I stated then I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks in advance.
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krick3tt
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Re: No Flashers & Brake Lights...

Post by krick3tt »

Had a similar issue ... check the ground at the body. My right brake light did not work and the corrosion at the point of connection was not allowing the ground wire to connect. Always worth a look. sometimes it is the simple thing that causes confusion.
Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him:
better take a closer look at the American Indian.---Henry Ford
undysworld
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Re: No Flashers & Brake Lights...

Post by undysworld »

The first thing I do when anything electrical on a Pinz fails is push in every circuit breaker, just in case one has popped.

If you still have rear tail lights, but no rear brake nor rear directional lights, then I would think the problem is not just a bad ground. On most lamps, when the ground is open, then all the functions are gone.
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John L
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Re: No Flashers & Brake Lights...

Post by John L »

The other posters have good ideas. Ground could be the issue. With a bad ground you can get crazy results. Circuit breakers are also notorious for causing crazy electrical issues. But, one other thing to check is the wiring connection box under the body towards the back of the pinz. I had similar issues and one of the group members was nice enough to send me a wiring schematic. I started following it and realized my problems all connected to the same box. I climbed underneath and took the cover off and figured I found the problem. There is a series of two connector blades inside the box which is a junction for some, not all, of the wiring. Mine had probably never been opened before and corrosion had set in. So, I pulled it all out, cleaned the connections and re-installed my problem wires with new connectors on unused blades on the connector plate and then used an electrical spray cleaner followed by an electrical grease to keep it from happening again. It was a pretty easy fix once I found it. If you get some time climb underneath and look for it. Mine was on the passenger side very near the rear of the truck. It was rectangular with a black plate held on with one screw mounted to the underside of the body. I have a 710M. Obviously I'm not using the technical terms for the parts as I don't have my manual with me. But the description will hopefully get you there.

I didn't take any pics or I'd post them for you. Good luck.
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David Dunn
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Re: No Flashers & Brake Lights...

Post by David Dunn »

As Paul had said, since the hazards work, it is very unlike to be a ground issue at the rear junction box. I would look at circuit breakers first, then, if lucky a ground issue at the turn signal flasher (not the hazard's flasher). After that, check your turn indicator switch on the steering wheel and wiring. A Swiss Pinz indicator switch has the function to flash one side while the brake pedal is pushed and not cause both tail lights to stay solid lit unless in the neutral position.

Now take into consideration it has been 13 years since I've owned a spark ignited Pinz... :roll: ...and I can't remember what I had for breakfast yesterday :? :lol:
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ATL Pinzgauer XM 718K TUM(HD) 6x6 FFR (aka The Green Grail)
krick3tt
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Re: No Flashers & Brake Lights...

Post by krick3tt »

My tail lights worked but the brake lights did not...it was the ground. Can't explain it but it was the ground.
Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him:
better take a closer look at the American Indian.---Henry Ford
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David Dunn
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Re: No Flashers & Brake Lights...

Post by David Dunn »

Morris,
Your problem isn't the same based on info given. The IP has hazard lamps which are the same filament/bulb as the turn signal/brake lamps on a Swiss Pinz ( this is assuming the rear lamps are original, and not altered )... if the hazard work, the turn " should" work ( and obviously not)... this lead me to the turn signal lever in front and associated wiring. This is a different circuit and only uses the same lamps as the hazards.

I'm extremely rusty on working on some auto electrics, but there are a lot of basic steps to go through before diving in and tear things apart.
The FDT was a great refresher in fundamentals.... Everything fell together just using them.
.
The Trojan Horse... the 1st Pinz used to covertly carry troops into battle .




ATL Pinzgauer XM 718K TUM(HD) 6x6 FFR (aka The Green Grail)
O'ahuPinz
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Re: No Flashers & Brake Lights...

Post by O'ahuPinz »

Thanks everyone for the input thus far. I actually did push all the circuit breakers and they appear to be fine. As I was doing my initial poking around, I did discover that the rear connection box on the passenger side had two disconnected wires. As you can see, the box itself is probably original and looks like itʻs badly corroded. I canʻt believe they would design an open piece like that with no cover for the undercarriage - the whole thing is exposed. :? I wouldnʻt think that would be the cause of the problem - but could it?

I was able to find an updated rear connection box with a cover on SAV and ordered it. I was thinking that the problem might have to do with the turn signal switch but Iʻm not sure yet. At any rate, I am going to have to hold off until the semester officially ends next week before I can check on anything else - Iʻm getting bogged down with final exams, grades, and frantic students. :| I appreciate all the ideas so far. I will keep you posted.
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ScottishPinz
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Re: No Flashers & Brake Lights...

Post by ScottishPinz »

That doesn't look like the wire connector I have under mine, it is in a sealed case!

If yours is an ex-Swiss truck then at some stage in its life it may have had the wiring changed for the rear indicators / brakes as the original had amber brake lights!!

I had problem with my indicators (not hazards) and realised the circuit goes through the dash panel light. The little bulb had blown taking out the whole circuit. New bulb and everything works fine.

Hope this gives some pointers.
undysworld
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Re: No Flashers & Brake Lights...

Post by undysworld »

I think that's the correct connector, but missing it's cover. It's been a while...
krick3tt
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Re: No Flashers & Brake Lights...

Post by krick3tt »

That connector is like the ones I had on my Mog. I have a sealed cover on the rear of the pinz. It has a small screw that holds it onto the box with the wires and the wires go through something like a grommet to help seal out debris.
After I checked my breakers that was the next thing on the list to determine the cause of the non-operation of the brake lights. Paul gave me a clue to the possible cause being with the ground. Corrosion between the connector and the body prevented the electrical continuation of the circuit. Wire brush at the body and new connector on the wire solved the problem. I applied a coating of spray undercoating to cover the bolt to help prevent future corrosion to the underside of the pinz at that location.
Electrical issues are not my best problems to solve.
Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him:
better take a closer look at the American Indian.---Henry Ford
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ako
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Re: No Flashers & Brake Lights...

Post by ako »

Just going to jump on this thread because I have a similar issue and want to find later.

Not ready to tackle this problem yet, working on other stuff (slowly).
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John L
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Re: No Flashers & Brake Lights...

Post by John L »

O'ahu:

That is the connector I was speaking of. Yours lost its cover somewhere along the way. Smart idea to replace it. When you start to tackle the project, clean everything up really well so you can see what goes where and the colors of the wires. Take plenty of pics so you can refer to them later. Then the replacement should be fairly easy. If any of the connectors corroded, you may be snipping the connectors off and putting on new ones. While crimps work well, I was concerned about them working loose and added some solder to each of mine and heat shrink material. Just a thought. Find a wire schematic and it gives you the color codes so you know which wires are operating which system on your truck. Then use some electrical grease to seal your connections before putting the cover back on. I even used some silicone around the edge of the cover to try and keep some of the mud and water out of mine.

Good luck and hope this helps.

John
O'ahuPinz
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Re: No Flashers & Brake Lights...

Post by O'ahuPinz »

Ok so the good news is that I finally found some time for pinz work, unfortunately, thatʻs the only good news I have. First things first though, as for the rear connection box it seems that my open and exposed box was actually OEM equipment on older pinzies. (See pictures below) Of course, weʻre not looking for aesthetics so if you were wondering if this upgrade fixed the problem the answer is No. :( The same problem persists (rear running lights work, rear hazard flashers work, brake and turn lights donʻt work). So on to the next step...Iʻll explain in the next post.
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Here it is for sale on SAV under the label "old style":
Here it is for sale on SAV under the label "old style":
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Hereʻs my dirty corroded box:
Hereʻs my dirty corroded box:
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Here is the upgraded box with a cover that screws onto the box on SAV:
Here is the upgraded box with a cover that screws onto the box on SAV:
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The funny thing is that when the box actually arrived it seems I got an upgrade on the upgrade.  Hereʻs what the new setup looks like:
The funny thing is that when the box actually arrived it seems I got an upgrade on the upgrade. Hereʻs what the new setup looks like:
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IMG_2017.JPG
IMG_2017.JPG (106.96 KiB) Viewed 6884 times
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O'ahuPinz
New Zealand
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Re: No Flashers & Brake Lights...

Post by O'ahuPinz »

I was hopeful that the rear connection box would solve the problem but unfortunately it didnʻt. I did crawl around looking for frayed wires, corroded ground connections, etc. but couldnʻt visually identify any problems. I played around with the #11 circuit breaker but it seems to be working fine. The nice thing is that I have access to another pinz so I can just swap out individual components to determine if they work or not, thereby allowing me to narrow down the possibilities more easily. With that said, the components I eliminated as the source of the problem, because they worked in the other pinz, are:

1) Flasher relay
2) Rear connection box (replaced with new one)
3) Turn signal switch
4) Flasher switch
5) Headlamp relay (I checked it for fun)
6) brake light switch

Thatʻs right, I swapped out all those components one at a time into the other pinz and they all worked without a hitch. It is just baffling to me how despite everything I have done the same symptoms persist. Iʻll be the first to say that I am no mechanic or electrician but it seems like a simple enough problem to tackle - check the wires & connections and make sure all the components are working. Maybe itʻs not as simple as I think, it usually never is, however, if anyone has more insight or suggestions on what I should check or how I should approach the problem then I am all ears.

Can circuit breakers wear out? None of the breakers have popped up, they are all pushed in so they appear to be fine but I donʻt know for sure. The other thing is that according to the schematic diagram there is no circuit breaker for the turn signals and brake lights. It says that #11 works the emergency flashers but as far as I can see there is no other circuit breaker for the blinkers and brakes so I assume it is all on the same circuit. Is that correct? And of course, my emergency flashers do work - itʻs just confusing.

My big concern is that in order to get the registration and safety renewed next month all my lights need to be working. Thank you again for all the great ideas shared thus far and for any other info you might have.
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