Time for new front springs..

Issues with shocks/springs, tires, stopping, etc.
User avatar
GadgetPhreak
United States of America
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:14 pm
Location: Redmond, WA
Contact:

Time for new front springs..

Post by GadgetPhreak » Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:04 pm

My front springs are toast. During this last weekends training event I was rubbing quite a bit on the right side as has been noted in several previous owners threads as being the indicator that the springs are tired..

I spent time searching and reading several threads and it sounds as though there were three different stiffness options (presumably to handle the variance in weight from the different body styles), what is the general consensus on which version to get and are all three versions available? From the posts I've reviewed it sounds like EIs are the medium weight and that SAVs are stiffer? is that correct?

Next up is the spring tool, does anyone currently rent/loan one out? How does one go about getting their hands on one to do the swap?

Finally, what about the spacer option in addition to new springs, to help level out the ride height? I'm expecting that most of the time I'll have a pretty full load of Search & Rescue crew (most missions I'm carrying 5-6 searchers + myself through pretty rough terrain). The little bit of information I saw had pretty mixed feelings on adding a spacer. I'd love to just go with the stiffest spring I can get my hands on as I'm more concerned with capacity than ride comfort..

As always, thanks again for the help.
Ben
King County Search & Rescue | Regional Special Vehicles Unit
1972 710M - Building up for SAR use
Follow my build: http://www.facebook.com/sarpinz | http://instagram.com/sarpinz

User avatar
TechMOGogy
Canada
Posts: 2721
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:39 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Time for new front springs..

Post by TechMOGogy » Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:27 pm

Pm sent
72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 94 350GDT | 96 350GDT Worker

User avatar
rmel
United States of America
Posts: 771
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:19 pm
Location: Woodside, CA
Contact:

Re: Time for new front springs..

Post by rmel » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:18 pm

The springs are designated by 1, 2, and 3 dots. The only one available that I have found is 2 dot.
If you look at the spec's for all three there is really not a huge difference between them. The "dotting",
I believe, is more of a binning so that one does not get the weakest and strongest as a set given the
manufacturing variation back in the day of the 70's. The best way to "boost" over the standard would
be the Pins at that bottom, for that you wold need to select from the Turbo Diesel pins, which have
several lengths to pick from.

But, before you go that route, make sure your Toe-in is correct, if wrong, e.g. a "toe out" so to
speak, you can lose over 2" of clearance and corresponding wheel well spacing. See here:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9515&hilit=toe+in
Incidentally, the front right side will always rub first, it has less clearance than the left due to the
front differentials axle offset.

The other thing to think about is your tire size, if your running wide guys, that will also exacerbate
well rub. Frankly I'd be a bit surprised if your springs are the only issue here.
Puller: 710K 2.7L EFI
Follower: Sankey MK 3, 3/4 Tonne
Driver: Ron // KO0Q

User avatar
Haf-e
United States of America
Posts: 822
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:25 pm
Location: Mount Vernon WA USA

Re: Time for new front springs..

Post by Haf-e » Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:01 am

Wouldn't wide tires and additional offset also increase the "lever arm" length - reducing the springs effective rating? Seems like that would make sense.

I thought TD's had heavier front springs also?
Haf-e

1971 Pinzgauer 710M

Image
Disc Brake Conversion Kits for 710 and 712 Pinzgauers
www.klugewerks.com

User avatar
rmel
United States of America
Posts: 771
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:19 pm
Location: Woodside, CA
Contact:

Re: Time for new front springs..

Post by rmel » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:16 am

Yes on a longer lever arm, wide tires and rims add to the problem in this regard.
For what it's worth, I have 285/75 on 8" wheels, and in my case getting Toe-in
right was by far the biggest factor in getting clearances to be acceptable. That
said, I still get an occasional rub but not sever, next set of tires I'll be going a
bit narrower for this reason as well as steering control.

I don't know about the TD spring constant vs the Gaser's? But I do know the
TD pins work but picking the proper length is the trick, too long and you could go
nose up -- they ain't cheap either.
Puller: 710K 2.7L EFI
Follower: Sankey MK 3, 3/4 Tonne
Driver: Ron // KO0Q

User avatar
David Dunn
Posts: 2151
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 7:08 pm
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Time for new front springs..

Post by David Dunn » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:15 pm

Before doing anything, I'd weigh your truck loaded ( with gear and people), and at each tire. And at the same time have someone look under the vehicle to check to see if the axles are level, or if you have negative camber.
On the other side, you want to avoid too much positive camber when the truck is driven empty, and making it easier to possibly tucking an axle on a turn.

Attached are the factory springs/pin configurations used on the TDs
Attachments
TA162.pdf
(616.04 KiB) Downloaded 43 times
.
The Trojan Horse... the 1st Pinz used to covertly carry troops into battle .




ATL Pinzgauer XM 718K TUM(HD) 6x6 FFR (aka The Green Grail)

User avatar
rmel
United States of America
Posts: 771
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:19 pm
Location: Woodside, CA
Contact:

Re: Time for new front springs..

Post by rmel » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:29 pm

Interesting, the TD does have Spring selections/load requirement and appropriate pins.
Hmm, wonder what the rear spring spec's are for a 716 and if these puppies would fit in
a 710?
Puller: 710K 2.7L EFI
Follower: Sankey MK 3, 3/4 Tonne
Driver: Ron // KO0Q

User avatar
David Dunn
Posts: 2151
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 7:08 pm
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Time for new front springs..

Post by David Dunn » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:11 pm

716s use 1 spring and an levelling air ride spring in the rear. Front/rear Springs are physically the same dimensions... unlike the 710s :mrgreen:

The Pink Cow had heavy springs all around, by the time I removed all the gear the Sweds had installed on it, it had 18" under the diffs and the air compressor never came on but twice in 10 years.
.
The Trojan Horse... the 1st Pinz used to covertly carry troops into battle .




ATL Pinzgauer XM 718K TUM(HD) 6x6 FFR (aka The Green Grail)

User avatar
rmel
United States of America
Posts: 771
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:19 pm
Location: Woodside, CA
Contact:

Re: Time for new front springs..

Post by rmel » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:45 pm

Don't you regret, selling that Pink Cow -- was an awesome rig, Diesel in CA had to be the only one :roll:
Shame the plates went to the other CA -- Eh!
Puller: 710K 2.7L EFI
Follower: Sankey MK 3, 3/4 Tonne
Driver: Ron // KO0Q

User avatar
audiocontr
Posts: 1779
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 1:30 pm
Location: Detroit Motor City

Re: Time for new front springs..

Post by audiocontr » Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:31 pm

I replaced my stock springs with NOS and saw no difference, so be careful. Springs may not be the issue.

Speaking of which, if anyone is in the market for used, good springs, let me know.
1973 712m
(2) 1968 Haflingers 1 For Sale
1978 GMC Palm Beach
1979 Mini Ranger For Sale
1986 Corvette For Sale
2001 F250 Diesel and trailer
Company Cars
2017 MKT
2018 F-150

hatzlibutzli
Germany
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 11:47 pm

Re: Time for new front springs..

Post by hatzlibutzli » Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:41 pm

be careful:

often not the springs itselves are the problem but the spring cups ... due to rust they break almost invisibly ... only after removal the problem can be seen ...

the Dieselsprings are a lot stiffer and lacking the progressiveness of the 710er ones and here in Europe only used for rally purposes ...

Greetings from Bavaria .... Simon

whitesik
United States of America
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:11 pm
Location: Indiana, U.S.A.

Re: Time for new front springs..

Post by whitesik » Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:48 pm

Are the 710K springs different than the 710M?
75 Swiss 710K
Not so new owner but still a novice

User avatar
audiocontr
Posts: 1779
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 1:30 pm
Location: Detroit Motor City

Re: Time for new front springs..

Post by audiocontr » Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:08 pm

not that i know of
1973 712m
(2) 1968 Haflingers 1 For Sale
1978 GMC Palm Beach
1979 Mini Ranger For Sale
1986 Corvette For Sale
2001 F250 Diesel and trailer
Company Cars
2017 MKT
2018 F-150

whitesik
United States of America
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:11 pm
Location: Indiana, U.S.A.

Re: Time for new front springs..

Post by whitesik » Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:11 pm

Thanks!
75 Swiss 710K
Not so new owner but still a novice

NEWFISHER
Posts: 315
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:52 am
Location: Oregon--NorthWet

Re: Time for new front springs..

Post by NEWFISHER » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:19 pm

Once you source some springs and they do not get the lift you need with the additional cab weight/winch/radio gear and the fulcrum effect from the rack stuffing the springs, measure and build some spacers for under the chassis stub to cup pin.

see here:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8100&start=30

Post Reply