710m rear springs

[MTPinz]

That's all great info, thanks again Ron.
Mr Zero has a set that he's going to ship out for me to try and hopefully that's the issue. I'd rather not cut the taller springs, and increase the spring rate further, and then have to deal with shocks that can't handle it.
On that note, I did order some Doetsch tech shocks to bolt up when everything goes back together too. Probably should get those lower spring cups ordered up as well...

[rmel]

All variants of the Pinz (710) springs are the same wire diameter and number of turns,
but they are binned into 3 buckets by strength. I don't know which were picked by model.
A bit of a guess would be 710 AMB-S with a large box on the chassis might get stronger
springs. A "K" was designed as a Radio truck carrying up to 4 guys and specific radio equipment
so the variation on the load would be more predictable than say a "M" with 10 guys with packs
and ammo. I'm sure someone on the Forum would know the factory choices of springs by model.

It would be interesting top know how others rigs are w.r.t. Strap tension.

[David Dunn]

I may not have my nomenclature quite correct here...I was under the impression that a 716 was a diesel version of a 710 4x4 and maybe came with a heavier duty spring in the rear? I guess what I was getting at was that maybe someone swapped in a hd spring from another model or something.

Are the 710m and 710k springs the same? I don't see any different part numbers listed for different versions anywhere.

I'll check on the axle twist, but nothing seems out of the ordinary or too wonky, ha!

Absolutely wrong. The TDs bodies and wheelbase are about 8" longer than the equivalent gas Pinz.. Drivetrain are on opposite sides... different axles, portals and other than some bearing, seal and other minor parts are not interchangeable. The best assumption is parts are not interchangeable , Even wheels are different with different lug patterns ! Not to mention all the improvements like PS, disc brakes, an auto trans option, electric pneumatic front drive and locker activators.... etc, etc..

Attached is a pic of a 716 rear suspension with the single rear spring ( same diameter as front) and air spring that adjusts with load.
Ive owned gas Pinzes back in 2001 and TDs since 2003 ( P80 716 ) and a rare LHD 718K w/ 2.5 TD! since 2014

[MTPinz]

Wow, I didn't realize they were such a completely different animal, how refined! Thanks for school'n me David. I most definitely do not have diesel springs, hahaha

[Joeri]

I may not have my nomenclature quite correct here...I was under the impression that a 716 was a diesel version of a 710 4x4 and maybe came with a heavier duty spring in the rear? I guess what I was getting at was that maybe someone swapped in a hd spring from another model or something.

Are the 710m and 710k springs the same? I don't see any different part numbers listed for different versions anywhere.

I'll check on the axle twist, but nothing seems out of the ordinary or too wonky, ha!

Absolutely wrong. The TDs bodies and wheelbase are about 8" longer than the equivalent gas Pinz.. Drivetrain are on opposite sides... different axles, portals and other than some bearing, seal and other minor parts are not interchangeable. The best assumption is parts are not interchangeable , Even wheels are different with different lug patterns ! Not to mention all the improvements like PS, disc brakes, an auto trans option, electric pneumatic front drive and locker activators.... etc, etc..

Attached is a pic of a 716 rear suspension with the single rear spring ( same diameter as front) and air spring that adjusts with load.
Ive owned gas Pinzes back in 2001 and TDs since 2003 ( P80 716 ) and a rare LHD 718K w/ 2.5 TD! since 2014

It's not a airspring but a airshock absorber....
And the rear springs can be switched with front springs of a 710....i have my 716k with the rooftop tent and to not have the aircompressor working every 5 minutes i swaped my rearsprings with frontsprings of a 710....now when the truck sits for a day or 3 the back stays level and dousnt go down like most 716's do with the airshockes.
And yes its a different truck comperred to the gas / petrol pinzgauers.

[David Dunn]

It's not a airspring but a airshock absorber....
And the rear springs can be switched with front springs of a 710....i have my 716k with the rooftop tent and to not have the aircompressor working every 5 minutes i swaped my rearsprings with frontsprings of a 710....now when the truck sits for a day or 3 the back stays level and dousnt go down like most 716's do with the airshockes.
And yes its a different truck comperred to the gas / petrol pinzgauers.

On this we disagree.With over 40 years of trucks I've added either air shocks OR air springs to, it goes to primary function.
Air shocks adjust valving of the shock absorber to adjust the ride control the the vehicle to the load is carrying. I used these to control the ride quality of HD pickup trucks from empty to a heavier load, such as a slide-in camper. They do not make any difference to the ride height, but do control the dampening rate of the shock absorbers .
On the other side, air springs primary function is to control ride level. In light duty pickup, spring are usually best from the factory for a smooth ride and a heavy load ( within the truck's legal load limit) will sag the rear end and throw the head lamps way out of adjustment. I had a mid sized pickup that I added air Springs to retain the original ride height and retain the shock absorber original dampening.

The 716 is no different in function, the air springs are there to maintain ride height. It is fully automatic. There is a control switch to monitor the rear axle height and signals the air compressor under the glove box to add air to the (air)spring when the rear end sags and to release air when it is too high. As anyone can see above, the only difference in rear suspension between the 710 and 716 is the substitution of the air spring for the second coil spring. This also raised the gross vehicle weight to that of a 712. The only concession I would make to shock absorber, is that it is built into the air spring but isn't controlled by air.

My 716 was a Swedish municipal truck and grossly overload. The front springs were not shock, nor the cup pin, PLUS had another 19mm (3/4") extension to the pin. The rear also had HD springs in the rear and rotten air hoses rendering the air system useless. I never did determine which spring they were, but in the 10 years I owned the truck, the compressor only turned on twice when the truck had a load and hit a dip in the road. When the springs settled after rebound, the compressor turned off. I wish I knew the spring combination it had since it is far better than the manually controlled compressor some are being converted to when the system fails. Somewhat comparable to what people do with the Range Rover air system. BTW, when I sold the 716 I had the air lines replaced so the new owner got an operable system ( thou not needed for normal conditions)

This is how my truck sat on just the coil springs, without any alteration to the suspension other than what the Swedish had done. I removed the hardtop to make a 716K into a 716KM

[Joeri]

Its a air/ shockabsorber.....i had mine rebuild , they even have a top part that is gas filled...something nobody did even know...mine is a 716k civilian version and one of the first ten build.

Still this has nothing to do with the 710 rear springs that are giving problems here. What i do know is that if axlewrap occours on a gas pinzgauer the outher axle seems always to rotate forwards...meaning that the front spring gets under higher tesion and the limiting strap gets puled down....adressing the problems that are named here .
Had this on a 710m of mine ....broke a driveshaft on a other 710m and 710k of mine....yes i 've owned some gas pinzies.....i' m also the guy who build the proto pinzgauer that was used in Croatia 2003.

Hope you figure out what the problem is on yours but if the straps are the right length than its not normal that they are under tension it the truck stands on it's wheels.

[MTPinz]

Thanks for the insight Joeri. I double checked my springs this AM and everything is sitting square according to my eyecrometer so it looks like springs are the culprit. Looking forward to freshening up more on this pig. Spring is just around the corner and I fully intend to put it through it's paces.

[MTPinz]

I still need to disassemble the rear suspension to see what I need to order as far as $pring cup$ go, but other items are beginning to roll in...like these new Doetsch Tech shocks! I can only imagine how much better the ride will be.

IMG_20220310_232858923.jpg (1.47 MiB) Viewed 4137 times

[rmel]

One new issue with the Doetsch shocks to be aware off is
They changed the bushing wall to thinner stock. So don’t
toque these to spec. Torque to a max of 100 ft-lbs or less
Otherwise these bushings can mushroom at the axle bracket.

Why they reduced the wall thickness beats me. But I suspect
to eliminate something unique.

[pcolette]

rmel is correct about those bushings. I chose to press out the old bushings from the original shocks, gave them a good cleaning and then re-used them rather than use the thinner walled ones provided. That may not have been the correct path to take, but it did work for me. They are very good shocks in my opinion and really improved the ride. Have fun!

[MTPinz]

Good call on swapping out the new with the old Those sleeves look severely inadequate for a hd rig like this.

Do you'll run with the external bumpstop on these shocks? Not sure if these shocks were designed for a different application, then fitted to a Pinz with custom sleeves, but the external bumps seem redundant if the Pinz ones are still there as mine are.

[Mr Zero]

Not sure if these shocks were designed for a different application, then fitted to a Pinz with custom sleeves...

It's my understanding that these were developed in partnership with Scott at EI and are engineered specifically for the Pinz.

[rmel]

That was correct -- until Doetsch started to tweak the design in a bad way.
Going cheap on the bushing wall thickness, and they also messed up the ID of the
bushing so you could not get a M16 bolt though, probably thought "heck 5/8" is
close enough" -- NOT.

[MTPinz]

Seems easy enough to overcome. Despite their shortcomings, the fact that someone offers an aftermarket shock is somewhat surprising to me, especially at the Doetsch Tech price point.

Keep the shaft mounted bumpstops? Yay or nay?