In snow, chains, how necessary on 712?

Issues with shocks/springs, tires, steering box, stopping, etc.
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totaljoint
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Post by totaljoint »

undysworld wrote:When you were having the problems going downhill, did you have the rear axle differentials locked?

It's been my understanding that during a steep descent, it would be better to have the rear axles unlocked. By doing this, you'll always have at least one tire per rear axle still able to turn, thus keeping the rear end from sliding.

This has worked well for me on dirt, but I can't speak for the effect in snow so much.
In fact I did have the rear and front locked. My theory is that as long as I kept one side of wheels on the soft, unpacked snow, I would have better control. As long as I stayed out of the packed tracks it seemed to work.
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edzz
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Post by edzz »

Are you running at on road tire pressures? Airing down to ~20 psi may help. Just remember to air back up for on highway.
Ed
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totaljoint
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Post by totaljoint »

Thanks, Ed:
I probably should have thought of lowering pressure, I didn't.

The picts are just off Hwy 2 (USFS 62) near Index. I don't know where Zeeksville is, though most folks who live in Index respond to "Zeek".
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edzz
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Post by edzz »

Zeeksville is just east of Gold Bar on the right; it is the location of Zeeks drive in. Good shakes, ok burgers and good huckleberry’s by the tables out back at the right time of year. 8)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/15507622@N07/3346385987/

Ed

edit: :shock: On second thought the burgers were better than ok, down right tasty. Its been a few years since I lived in that area.
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totaljoint
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Post by totaljoint »

Oh, now it makes sense. Yeah, just past there!
But now there's Bubba's Roadhouse in Goldbar. BBQ that draws them in as far as Seattle.
Thanks for the advice.
Ed
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edzz
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Post by edzz »

That Bubba sure has his fingers in a lot of ventures. Was looking at the bubba rope products at the SEMA show look to be a good product. :o

http://www.bubbarope.com/

It must be the same Bubba, couldn’t be more than one Bubba could there? :?

Ed
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Jimm391730
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Post by Jimm391730 »

You can't tell me that Bubba's Roadhouse is better than Caveman! It was worth the drive from Everett down to Renton for Caveman BBQ. Otherwise I better get back up to Bubba's!

Yeah, locking the diffs for downhill are a crapshoot in the dry and in most cases are bad for snow and ice. But I've found that a 712 generally has enough weight in the rear that I've not felt the need to add weight for snow traction, and the less weight the easier the downhills are to handle. But do engage the front axle so all of them can help with decent (and prevents the rears from locking if you touch the brakes).

The easiest way I've found to learn how to install the Pinz chains is to jack up one wheel and learn how they go on that way; once you've done them and learn how they go on then it's usually fairly easy to install with the wheel on the ground when you need to. But deep snow is the pits to decide to install chains! Much easier to install on smooth hardpack.

We had about 3" of snow Sunday, but haven't had time to get either trucks out in it.

Jim M.
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totaljoint
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Post by totaljoint »

What, has everybody lived up here at one time or another?
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edzz
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Post by edzz »

You may also want to keep the lockers unlocked most of the time in snow and especially on ice, they can cause more problems than they solve. Taking corners with every thing locked-up forces one or more tires to give up traction.

I liked the Caveman better before they moved across the parking lot into the new building. :lol: May want to give the Dixie's BBQ in Bellevue a try too. BTW the Caveman BBQ I knew was about 5 miles south of Renton in Kent on the west valley highway. :P Lived for many years in the Puget Sound region.

Ed
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Jerbearyukon
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Post by Jerbearyukon »

Well I just bought a regular set of chains for my pinz last year - tired of fighting the ones I had when I bought the new Tuxus,,,they were tight on them.

I put them on as soon as I start having real trouble cause these ones go on easily and have the hooks on 'em. I use the lockers sparingly (climbing over logs and ditches etc) but mosty just in four wheel drive.

You need good tires for snow with the Pinz. I have a firend with an old Chev 4x4 and he can go further than I can until i lock 'em up.

You need some weight in it and now that I have the 50 gallon reserve tank in mine I just leave about 40 gallons in her - helps lots.

PS we have about 2 feet now and it's 24 below and getting colder this week - oh plus the wind chill - dunno what that makes it.

Can't wait for my carbs to come back from Dennis so I can go and play and hunt some bison too.

Jer
712 Walt
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Re: In snow, chains, how necessary on 712?

Post by 712 Walt »

The coefficient of sliding friction is much less than the coefficient of rolling friction. Don't use the lockers unless you are getting wheel spin. We found this out in the late sixties when positrack differentials came out for both front and rear axles. I lived in Bridgeport, CA (elevation 6468) and commuted to Mammoth Lakes every day. The LA yahoos with oversize tires (read toboggans) would slip and slide and could never figure out how I got to the jobsites while they couldn't. Also, in snow/ice conditions you will do better with more pressure in your tires. Not less. Except for unusual circumstances (like driving on snow cat trails) the wheel loading (weight per square inch on the portion of the tread carrying weight) is too much to get float over deep snow (deeper than the belly pan or, on a Pinz, to the point where the snow begins to float the rig. The old saw is that a 4x4 will get you four feet further and four feet deeper. After 8 years of driving my 712 I haven't had to get retriever help (yet).
Skeej
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Re: In snow, chains, how necessary on 712?

Post by Skeej »

712 Walt wrote:The coefficient of sliding friction is much less than the coefficient of rolling friction. Don't use the lockers unless you are getting wheel spin. We found this out in the late sixties when positrack differentials came out for both front and rear axles. I lived in Bridgeport, CA (elevation 6468) and commuted to Mammoth Lakes every day. The LA yahoos with oversize tires (read toboggans) would slip and slide and could never figure out how I got to the jobsites while they couldn't. Also, in snow/ice conditions you will do better with more pressure in your tires. Not less. Except for unusual circumstances (like driving on snow cat trails) the wheel loading (weight per square inch on the portion of the tread carrying weight) is too much to get float over deep snow (deeper than the belly pan or, on a Pinz, to the point where the snow begins to float the rig. The old saw is that a 4x4 will get you four feet further and four feet deeper. After 8 years of driving my 712 I haven't had to get retriever help (yet).
thanks Walt, thats a great post.
Was up in your old stomping grounds (June Mtn - got snowed in that big storm a month ago) - looks like the locals use serious chains- the kinds with the nylon webs holding the chains, around the hub area?

I bot some cheapo chains ("cable" style) at Wally World for the Mamma-mobile ( a 2005 Ford Exploder 2Wd with ltd slip rear ) - put em on all four tires, and discovered they were better than stock tires, but not much- and dont work for crap on the black ice...

you're better off waiting until a few vehicles pass by, and pack some snow into ruts, than get out and plow thru the powder, or worse, be the first one after the snow plow, if theres ice under the snow they scraped off...

Reminded me of my youth slipping and sliding in the snow in NoDak - snow tire treads are nearly as good if not better than those cables, and while 4x4 helps if done right, it will get you into more trouble than it will get you out of-

closer to home- a lot of those dirt tracks in Baja were made by old pickup trucks- or light Vw bugs...all 2WD.

Cant wait to try the Pinz in the deep stuff...need another set of chains if anyone has an extra pair to sell.

I heard there were several Pinzies up in Laguna Mtn together a couple weeks or so ago- any reports on how they played in the white stuff?
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