Possible Spring Problem??

Issues with shocks/springs, tires, steering box, stopping, etc.
swashplate

Re: Possible Spring Problem??

Post by swashplate »

undysworld wrote:None of your pics scream "BAD" to me. Looks like some rust here and there, but nothing obvious.

Perhaps you could at least pin down which end of the truck has issues by jacking up one end under the diff., and seeing whether the truck retains it's cant. For instance, if you raise the rear of the truck and it appears to level out, then I'd look closely at the rear end suspension for the problem since the front then seems to hold it level.

IIRC, the rears are a piece of cake to remove, and don't require a spring compressor. (all from memory, as I have a 712) You might start there by removing and inspecting the springs for similar lengths and the cups for rust damage.
--------
I did try to remove the rear springs for length inspection, but I could not get them out after I took off the shock and limit strap. hmmmm

I did jack up the truck and when the tires were at the same camber on the left and right sides (same axle) everything was level.
I repeated this for both front and rear, at this point it seems like the front left suspension, and since the tophat for the spring is the same distance from the tub as the right side.

I would conclude at this point the front left spring has to be replaced, of course I would replace both spring on the front at the same time.
In your "opinion", would you come to the same answer??

so now I guess I need to check prices at EI and SAV......I bet that is going to hurt.
User avatar
pcolette
United States of America
Posts: 1614
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:38 pm
Location: Southwest Wisconsin

Re: Possible Spring Problem??

Post by pcolette »

To remove the rear springs, after removing the shock and strap, you also have to remove the "Pin Spring Support Rear", item 04-20-18. It's basically a very special ($$) bolt that screws in from below and holds the lower cup in place and allows the cup to pivot on the tip of the bolt.

The 2 times I have removed them they needed a lot of penetrating oil and some muscle to get them out. Use caution - the springs may still have some tension to them.
Paul C.
_________
'73 Swiss 710M
'89 Puch 230GE
swashplate

Re: Possible Spring Problem??

Post by swashplate »

pcolette wrote:To remove the rear springs, after removing the shock and strap, you also have to remove the "Pin Spring Support Rear", item 04-20-18. It's basically a very special ($$) bolt that screws in from below and holds the lower cup in place and allows the cup to pivot on the tip of the bolt.

The 2 times I have removed them they needed a lot of penetrating oil and some muscle to get them out. Use caution - the springs may still have some tension to them.
Thank you !!! :D
User avatar
edzz
United States of America
Posts: 1309
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:13 am
Location: Coeur d'Alene, ID

Re: Possible Spring Problem??

Post by edzz »

My disjointed thoughts,

Unless the repair manual is stating the limit strap mount bolts are to be used as reference points for measurement I would not automatically make the assumption that they are symmetrical. For instance remember that the tires (center of axel) are further forward on the right side.

Also symptom #2 makes little sense to me.” 2-The left front tire is wearing faster on the outside edge and the right front right tire.” Its this part that baffles me “and the right front right tire” if you are saying that both front tires are wearing faster on the outside edges I get it, that is normal.

You also fail to mention if all four tires are matching and installed at the same time. Have they ever been rotated? How many miles on them?

You indicate that visually the truck is not level. For most people ¼” difference over 4’ would be hard to spot accurately.

Driving on the street it is normal to take more sharp right hand turns than left hand turns, this will have an effect on tire wear.

When you mention factoring in a full tank of gas (~6 lbs x 20 = ~120 lbs somewhat insignificant in my opinion on a one ton truck) are you remembering to add the driver and the batteries on the left hand side? You are making an assumption that the Pinzgauer in road trim with no additional load carries equal weight on each wheel from side to side.

Honestly I think you need to check the spring cups before you try to open a bigger can of worms.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.
swashplate

Re: Possible Spring Problem??

Post by swashplate »

edzz wrote:My disjointed thoughts,

Unless the repair manual is stating the limit strap mount bolts are to be used as reference points for measurement I would not automatically make the assumption that they are symmetrical. For instance remember that the tires (center of axel) are further forward on the right side.

Also symptom #2 makes little sense to me.” 2-The left front tire is wearing faster on the outside edge and the right front right tire.” Its this part that baffles me “and the right front right tire” if you are saying that both front tires are wearing faster on the outside edges I get it, that is normal.

You also fail to mention if all four tires are matching and installed at the same time. Have they ever been rotated? How many miles on them?

You indicate that visually the truck is not level. For most people ¼” difference over 4’ would be hard to spot accurately.

Driving on the street it is normal to take more sharp right hand turns than left hand turns, this will have an effect on tire wear.

When you mention factoring in a full tank of gas (~6 lbs x 20 = ~120 lbs somewhat insignificant in my opinion on a one ton truck) are you remembering to add the driver and the batteries on the left hand side? You are making an assumption that the Pinzgauer in road trim with no additional load carries equal weight on each wheel from side to side.

Honestly I think you need to check the spring cups before you try to open a bigger can of worms.
I have changed and addressed symptom #2, addressed the tire stuff.

I did not think of the battery box stuff. Thanks. But that would sort of equalize the weight.

Do you think that a spring cup if collapsed could be seen without disassembly/ seen from the outside? Please see my photos as the spring caps are the same distance to the tub rail. That's why I ask if damage is visible from the exterior.




I guess I need to measure the current length of each spring and do a compare.

Other than the inspection I guess I need to pull the springs. Any good methods?
Stekay
United States of America
Posts: 346
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:32 pm
Location: Long Island, New York

Re: Possible Spring Problem??

Post by Stekay »

When you get them out, this might help.
Attachments
spring_tech.jpg
spring_tech.jpg (125.15 KiB) Viewed 3410 times
'76 710K
User avatar
John L
United States of America
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:48 am
Location: Covington, Louisiana

Re: Possible Spring Problem??

Post by John L »

Let us know when you change them out and the results you get. The back of my 710 M sags at least 1/2' lower than the front AND it is supposed to be higher to account for the weight of the troops on the back. When I hit a speed bump (even at low speeds :)) I feel the truck bottom out and it tends to bottom out in the front after the rear hits the stops. While I'm not thrilled about replacing four springs in the back, I'm thinking about doing it to improve the ride. I was curious how your truck responded to the new springs.

Thanks,

John
krick3tt
Posts: 2457
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: Denver, CO USA

Re: Possible Spring Problem??

Post by krick3tt »

I have read through al of the entries here and a thought comes to mind: 1. How old is this vehicle? 2. Is the 1/4 to 3/8 difference from side to side or front to back even enough to be concerned about?
Check out other 35+ year old vehicles and see if they still maintain factory specs. ..bet they don't.

I understand the tire wear issue may be of some concern, it would be to me as well. But, if this is not your daily driver and used only occasionally then tire rotation may be a remedy that might be easily
accomplished. If the spring cups are not worn through allowing the springs to be somewhat uneven in their length it may be simply that metal in springs may have 'flaws' inherent in the manufacture.
Rather than get 'new' springs, simply switch them from right to left sides. Before purchasing springs that have a hefty price tag, do a comparison.

When I installed my EI front bumper and winch I lost 3/4 inch in clearance height. Not expected but not a deal breaker either. This thing is 40+ years old and I expect some slight wear. Even some
odd behavior in the vehicle. The odd behavior is from me in thinking that now that I have a winch I can do crazy things.

My pinz also sits slightly lower on one side. Never measured it as almost every road in this country is cambered to the outside curb for drainage.

Happy trails
Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him:
better take a closer look at the American Indian.---Henry Ford
Post Reply