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 Shock Coil spring clearance 
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:19 am
Posts: 446
Location: Woodside, CA
Post Shock Coil spring clearance
Just finished installing new Doetsch Shocks from EI on my 710K.
Of note, and wondering if anyone else has had seen the following problem...

The old shock removed from the front passenger side had so little clearance
between the outer upper metal sleeve of the shock and the spring that it was
worn though in bottom area facing the coil spring due to friction. Hmmm, I
thought I heard some rubbing at Mogfest :?

Even without an outer metal sleeve on the Doetsch shocks (rubber boot instead)
I was not happy with the clearance of the shock body to coil so I mounted them
upside down (Body up, rod down) which for these shocks is perfectly OK to do.
Now I have some clearance and should be OK.

The question is -- why so darn tight to begin with? I don't seen any apparent
damage anywhere. Or is this just the way it can be?

ron


Sat Dec 27, 2014 1:32 pm
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:19 am
Posts: 446
Location: Woodside, CA
Post Re: Shock Coil spring clearance
Oh, and YES! The Shock bushing insert extended portion
is correctly mounted top and bottom providing offset.


Sat Dec 27, 2014 1:45 pm
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Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 7:08 am
Posts: 1670
Location: Blue Mounds, WI
Post Re: Shock Coil spring clearance
Spring cup problem maybe, so spring is out of place?


Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:21 pm
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Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 9:41 pm
Posts: 814
Location: Mount Pleasant, Tx.
Post Re: Shock Coil spring clearance
undysworld wrote:
Spring cup problem maybe, so spring is out of place?


Ditto. good call.

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74 710m and (1) pinz trailer


Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:36 pm
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:19 am
Posts: 446
Location: Woodside, CA
Post Re: Shock Coil spring clearance
Cups look OK to me. But now I am wondering if the Wheel drive housing
is rotated off true position. The housing does separate from the diff and
C-clamps to the diff axle tube -- there's an internal O-ring seal.

If this is the problem it's been mis-aligned this way for a very long time.
Which would make some sense as the damage to the shock doesn't look
like this happen overnight. Although it is hard to see with the eyeball if
this is the problem.


Sat Dec 27, 2014 4:02 pm
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Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 7:08 am
Posts: 1670
Location: Blue Mounds, WI
Post Re: Shock Coil spring clearance
In addition to the two clamp bolts, there is a larger indexing bolt to align it right.

But I doubt if it's off, because then you'd likely be experiencing steering problems as the caster would be off.


Sat Dec 27, 2014 5:23 pm
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:19 am
Posts: 446
Location: Woodside, CA
Post Re: Shock Coil spring clearance
Steers nice, so maybe not this alignment issue.

Starting to get dark now, so I'll crawl under again
in the morning and see if there's something I
overlooked -- odd one!


Sat Dec 27, 2014 6:21 pm
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:19 am
Posts: 446
Location: Woodside, CA
Post Re: Shock Coil spring clearance
Yup! Looks like It's the Wheel drive housing, should be rotated an additional ~5 degrees counter-clockwise.
That would move the bottom of the spring to the left and shock to the right. See PIX showing the shock
where the steel sleeve took a "set" in the rubber bushing in a slightly up direction -- indicating a mis-alignment.
Suggests this has been this way for a long time to set in the rubber like this permanently. This rig (Mozo), did
have a body off and re-build around 1999 to 2000, someone may have put this together this way and didn't
notice :roll:

So now what? Looking at the service manual there's no indication of an alignment step. I never took the
Wheel drive apart so I don't know if it's keyed and just fits right or requires a "tweak". Calls out O-ring
replacement and sealing the clamping area with Loctite and -- put it back together the way you took it apart :?

So now I'm thinking screw it! It's been this way for a long time so work around the problem -- replace the bottom
100mm shock bolt with a ~110mm bolt and add about 10mm of 19mm washers (3 ea.) to space the new shock
out a wee bit further for some additional margin. Makes sense?

ron


Attachments:
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Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:25 am
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Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 9:58 pm
Posts: 1287
Location: Idyllwild, CA
Post Re: Shock Coil spring clearance
The wheel drive axle shaft has a locating pin (short bolt) that is supposed to match a hole on the diff axle shaft. If yours is 10 degrees off, then that pin has been sheared. This pin both aligns the axle drive and gives additional strength to prevent rotation, above an beyond the clamps and loctite. While it may not have moved since you bought it, it DID move sometime in the past and might move again, especially in difficult terrain. I would vote for repairing it correctly for the piece of mind that it is mounted right, and not as liable to fail in the worst possible location.

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Jim M.
712W and 710M


Mon Dec 29, 2014 1:18 pm
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Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 7:08 am
Posts: 1670
Location: Blue Mounds, WI
Post Re: Shock Coil spring clearance
Jim may be right, that the locating (indexing) bolt may be sheared off. It's also possible that the corresponding hole in the stub axle may be worn and elongated.

I agree that this should be fixed, rather than just adjusting the surrounding parts. It won't get any better for sure.


Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:23 pm
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:19 am
Posts: 446
Location: Woodside, CA
Post Re: Shock Coil spring clearance
Yup. Dave D also gave me a call on this. Suggested I remove
the index bolt and see what's up internally. If sheared or some
other mechanical damage off she goes for repair.


Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:40 pm
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Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 9:58 pm
Posts: 1287
Location: Idyllwild, CA
Post Re: Shock Coil spring clearance
Unless the diff axle tube hole became elongated, a partially sheared alignment pin/bolt will be very difficult to remove, as every half turn shears the pin again. If it is truly sheared then it should unscrew relatively easily; if not, you may have to loosen the wheel drive axle clamp bolts, wedge it open, so it can rotate and slide in/out as the partially sheared pin is unscrewed. Ugg, not a job I'd be looking forward to! :cry:

Best of luck.

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Jim M.
712W and 710M


Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:02 pm
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:19 am
Posts: 446
Location: Woodside, CA
Post Re: Shock Coil spring clearance
And as you can see by the Rain Coat my 710 wears, I do this work outside :(
If this goes as the Brit's say -- Pear shaped, I'll be begging Scott at EI for an
early visit to his new digs :?

ron


Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:35 pm
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Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:17 pm
Posts: 825
Location: arizona
Post Re: Shock Coil spring clearance
I have seen several (10+) trucks with the axle rotated slightly. In most cases it can be traced to a repair job where no locttite was used on reassembly. In the more extreme cases the housing where the alignment screw threads are get cracked. the hole that the bolt screws into usually is damaged a little.
I have said it before and remind people who actually drive their trucks to take a look at the maintenance schedule. The schedule indicates that the clamping bolts be retorqued every other oil change, not many pinz owners are doing this.
I have lost more then one shock to axle rotation. Keep an eye on it and put it back together per the book.

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Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:34 pm
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:19 am
Posts: 446
Location: Woodside, CA
Post Re: Shock Coil spring clearance
Just pulled the alignment plug out and it is just fine. I can see the outer
and inner tube walls and the alignment hole. The problem as 4x4pinz
just pointed out -- there is enough "slop" in this system that one can
have the axle mis-aligned a few degrees one way or the other. In my
case all the slop is taken up in the wrong direction thus the shock-coil
interface.

So the simple fix -- I suppose -- is loosen the locking bolts, turn
counter-clockwise until it don't go anymore, re-torque. I'm betting that
won't be easy.

Good point on re-torquing these bolts regularly -- I'm gonna do that
on the 3 good ones ASAP.

ron


Mon Dec 29, 2014 7:43 pm
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