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The Portal Hub: All things Pinzgauer, Haflinger, Volvo 303 and more.

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 Cage and roof rack design input requested 
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Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:14 pm
Posts: 157
Location: Redmond, WA
Post Cage and roof rack design input requested
Good morning,

I wanted to get your input on the cage design that we have come up with for my Search and Rescue Pinzgauer.

The goals for the build are:

1. Provide a mounting point for all of the lighting and antenna’s needed for Search & Rescue use. Rack needs to be able to have cabling ran inside, both power & ground for lighting and coax for antennas.

2. Keep overall weight as low on the vehicle as possible (example, using aluminum for roof rack platform, thinner walled tubing where feasible (without impacting structural integrity), flexible attach points as low as possible for adding fuel/water jugs, etc.)

3. Provide a platform to hold SAR gear (both fixed gear that belongs in the rig as well as gear used on a specific mission, which includes litters, packs, ropes, etc.). Mission gear is put up and down several times during a mission so attach points and straps should be fast to deploy and easy to operate.
Enable flexible attach points to adapt to different equipment used at different times of the year (i.e. Maxtrax in the winter, ropes on rigging missions, fuel for long missions or overnight, etc.) as well as for other uses beyond SAR, including off-road expedition and camping.

4. Support future upgrades including an awning and future adaptable storage as new use cases are discovered.

We are planning to replace the wood rub rails with tubing and build up from there. For the front we will not be connecting into the front bumper as it's connected to the drive train and needs to be able to "float" independently from the rest of the body. We are planning to build plates off of the front windshield hinges and attach there. The roof rack will only cover the area behind the cab. Weight will be centered on the two ladder racks going down as the front and back of that section, so it should have plenty of support. The front section will only be carrying the weight of the rack itself as well as the front lighting. We are also going to be looking to see if we can add additional structural supporting behind the rack attach points to add more support in the event of a roll-over. But we haven't sorted that out yet either..

As always, I would appreciate any and all feedback and criticism from those with experience. It has always been very helpful to my build.

Thanks,
Ben

_________________
King County Search & Rescue | WA Regional Special Vehicles Unit
1972 710M - Building up for SAR use
Follow my build: http://www.facebook.com/sarpinz


Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:06 pm
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Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:14 pm
Posts: 157
Location: Redmond, WA
Post Re: Cage and roof rack design input requested
Here's a diagram of the current design. Image


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

_________________
King County Search & Rescue | WA Regional Special Vehicles Unit
1972 710M - Building up for SAR use
Follow my build: http://www.facebook.com/sarpinz


Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:09 pm
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:19 am
Posts: 418
Location: Woodside, CA
Post Re: Cage and roof rack design input requested
One thing to consider is minimize moving the center of gravity up too high. That will
reduce the tip over angle from 43 degrees to something less. There are several
sightings of sleeping Pinz'ies on the forum :)

The "tippyness" is measured by the Static Stability Factor, it's1.2 for a Jeep Wrangler,
the Pinz is about 0.95. It's the trad-off you get for clearance. You can get stability back
by increasing track width, either wheel spacers or wider rims e.g. 8". Adding 3" to the
track will improve SSP to ~1.0. So minimize your top weight as much as possible, use
as thin as possible DOM tubing, Aluminum where you can etc.

_________________
Puller: 710K 2.7L EFI
Follower: Sankey MK 3, 3/4 Tonne
Driver: Ron // KO0Q


Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:05 pm
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Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:39 am
Posts: 2253
Location: Ontario, Canada
Post Re: Cage and roof rack design input requested
I would look at using aluminum for the entire rack as the Pinz already has roll bars so you have a backup system already in place.
Side rails keep steel

_________________
72 Pathfinder
75 710M 2.7i
96 350GDT Worker


Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:29 pm
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Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:52 am
Posts: 299
Location: Oregon--NorthWet
Post Re: Cage and roof rack design input requested
You gained track width with the TR wheels. Use aluminum tube as mentioned and purchase light weight items to mount up high. Even wire becomes heavy inside the tube when you run a bunch of it. Steel mounting points and alu from there.


Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:52 pm
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Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 12:30 pm
Posts: 1551
Location: Detroit Motor City
Post Re: Cage and roof rack design input requested
I've said it before and Ill say it again - I'd trade my 712 for the right 710 with a rack. I just love the functionality this provides. I'm looking forward to your final product.

_________________
1973 712m
(2) 1968 Haflingers One For Sale
1979 Mini Cooper Ranger For Sale
1986 Corvette For Sale
2001 F250 Diesel and trailer
Current Company Cars
2016 Flex
2017 F-150


Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:18 am
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Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:14 pm
Posts: 157
Location: Redmond, WA
Post Re: Cage and roof rack design input requested
Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it. I'm meeting with the design folks again today.

Updates planned:
- will definitely be using aluminum for roof rack and will either be using aluminum for full build or sticking with thin wall DOM
- adding ditch lights along side for road searching and command post lighting
- double check location of the ladders to ensure they won't cover the windows in the Tuff River Stuff top

I'll post updates, build should be starting soon.

Daily pics will be uploaded to http://www.facebook.com/sarpinz and big updates/tech questions will get posted here.

Thanks again,
Ben

_________________
King County Search & Rescue | WA Regional Special Vehicles Unit
1972 710M - Building up for SAR use
Follow my build: http://www.facebook.com/sarpinz


Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:48 am
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Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:14 pm
Posts: 157
Location: Redmond, WA
Post Re: Cage and roof rack design input requested
audiocontr wrote:
I've said it before and Ill say it again - I'd trade my 712 for the right 710 with a rack. I just love the functionality this provides. I'm looking forward to your final product.


I'll be looking for a 712K or 718K after finishing this build. That one will be for pleasure use and restoration.

I couldn't make very good use of the 6x6 for SAR as the roads/trails are just too tight here in Washington to support turning it around effectively. It can be done but you need to find the right place or end up backing up a long way to get somewhere feasible. However we're usually in small teams so the logistics get ugly pretty quickly. With the 4x4 I can nearly always turn around in place with very little effort. I'm looking forward to getting the power steering installed to make that even easier..

_________________
King County Search & Rescue | WA Regional Special Vehicles Unit
1972 710M - Building up for SAR use
Follow my build: http://www.facebook.com/sarpinz


Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:53 am
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Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:14 pm
Posts: 157
Location: Redmond, WA
Post Re: Cage and roof rack design input requested
Here's the final version. The Search and Rescue cut outs will be back-lit and come on with driving lights. The side structures will be 6061 aluminum, the rest will be 5150. Total weight will be just over 150lbs, not including lighting fixtures, antennas, and cabling. The pieces floating out front are corner guards and will serve as brackets for front cornering lights and will be front mounts for limb risers that will run up to top corners of the roof rack.

Image

Image

The front bumper will be simplified and use a modified version of this design.

Image

It will be done next week so I'll post images of the final product in my build thread.

You can follow more frequent updates on my facebook page http://facebook.com/sarpinz


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

_________________
King County Search & Rescue | WA Regional Special Vehicles Unit
1972 710M - Building up for SAR use
Follow my build: http://www.facebook.com/sarpinz


Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:59 pm
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 4:25 pm
Posts: 547
Location: Mount Vernon WA USA
Post Re: Cage and roof rack design input requested
Very nice - reminds me of the roof rack system built by "Das Mule" owners for their Vanagon Syncro camper -

Image

http://www.theadventureportal.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/dasmule_adventure_portal.jpg


Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:16 pm
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Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:39 am
Posts: 2253
Location: Ontario, Canada
Post Re: Cage and roof rack design input requested
Makes sense since they are building this rack too :)

150lbs is amazing!

_________________
72 Pathfinder
75 710M 2.7i
96 350GDT Worker


Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:18 am
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Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:14 pm
Posts: 157
Location: Redmond, WA
Post Re: Cage and roof rack design input requested
My Pinz is going under the knife. Over the next week and a half it will get fitted for the new roof rack. Then the rack will get removed and sent off to the powder coater. And finally it will get reinstalled along with the lighting and radio antennas. It should be wrapped up some time next week, barring any unforeseen issues or delays at Powder Coating.

_________________
King County Search & Rescue | WA Regional Special Vehicles Unit
1972 710M - Building up for SAR use
Follow my build: http://www.facebook.com/sarpinz


Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:43 pm
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Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:00 pm
Posts: 479
Location: near Geneva, Switzerland
Post Re: Cage and roof rack design input requested
Just read your mention of a simplified front bumper, and from the picture that you post, the side portions of the bumper have been almost entirely deleted. Please just keep in mind that this bumper is almost your only protection in case of front impact...
There is not much passenger impact protection to expect from any 40-year old vehicle, but I would imagine that a strong bumper on a Pinz could spare your lower limbs some grueling damage in some circumstances (I think some on the forum reinforced their stock bumper by adding or welding C-channel or square section steel). Just my 2 cts...
Looking forward to reading more from you and your SAR Pinz!

_________________
Jan

'72 Pinzgauer 710M


Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:17 am
Profile YIM

Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:14 pm
Posts: 157
Location: Redmond, WA
Post Re: Cage and roof rack design input requested
Thanks Geneva. I appreciate the feedback. I'm planning to keep the lower portion of the bumper and just remove the tubing. I've modified the design I posted (which I got from Bikmakr) to fit around the existing steel bumper, adjusted the cradle to fit the Warn Zeon 10, and am adding a recess for a front camera so I can see in front of me when the nose is in the air.

That will help tie the look of the front end into the rest of the design, lower the winch down several inches for pull angles more in line with the chassis, and still offer considerable protection.

Hopefully it works as well as I hope it does [WINKING FACE]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

_________________
King County Search & Rescue | WA Regional Special Vehicles Unit
1972 710M - Building up for SAR use
Follow my build: http://www.facebook.com/sarpinz


Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:58 am
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Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:14 pm
Posts: 157
Location: Redmond, WA
Post Re: Cage and roof rack design input requested
Uploading the latest pictures of my roof rack build for those that dont have a Facebook account.

Currently it weighs in about 180lbs total.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

_________________
King County Search & Rescue | WA Regional Special Vehicles Unit
1972 710M - Building up for SAR use
Follow my build: http://www.facebook.com/sarpinz


Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:07 pm
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