I am contemplating the purchase of a 712 AMB-S for conversion to an expedition camper, and need to get a better appreciation for the construction of the Shelter I understand that the Shelter is a fibreglass inside/outside construction, but beyond that I know little about it. As a minimum I would like to know:
- What is the underlying structure (material, structural member size, pitch/frame centre distance, fastening method, are there any horizontal members between the frame)?
- How is the fibreglass skin attached (I assume bonded)?
- What type of insulation is there in the walls?
- Has anyone de-skinned the inside, and with what results?
Another point, I would like to make the Shelter removable with some heavy trailer jacks. While the Shelter is Air-Transportable and has lifting eyes on the corners, is the lower corner structure sufficient to take the load through a mechanically fastened jack.
I would like to open discussion and do this right the first time.
Thanks!
Structure of 712 AMB-S Shelter
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randwolfe
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:26 am
- Location: Shubenacadie, Nova Scotia, Canada
- Contact:
Structure of 712 AMB-S Shelter
Randy Shelaga
1982 712 AMB-S (almost)
Don't Steyr, it's a Pinzgauer!
1982 712 AMB-S (almost)
Don't Steyr, it's a Pinzgauer!
I just purchased a 712 workshop body so I will be looking at the same issues (not delivered yet).
I am not sure if they are fibreglass outside as a zoom in on mine shows rivets holding it together. However the ambulance body is different from mine in several areas. I will be looking at the innards when it arrives.
I have seen some pictures of a lifting system I can email.
To add to your list of ideas (I hope you don't mind):
- does anyone have photos or dimensions of the ambulance spare wheel carrier, mounted on the rear door?
- there is an electrical cable on the bodies. How does this connect to the truck as appears smaller than the 24v interconnect plug?
- if using a redot aircon, using a vehicle compressor. Can an electric compressor be fitted inline, so the aircon works (off mains) whilst the engine is off? Anyone know where to buy aircon hose quick disconnects?
Just founthis thread in here, with some cutting into an ambulance body.... http://real4x4forums.com/PinzgauerBBS/v ... ght=camper
I am not sure if they are fibreglass outside as a zoom in on mine shows rivets holding it together. However the ambulance body is different from mine in several areas. I will be looking at the innards when it arrives.
I have seen some pictures of a lifting system I can email.
To add to your list of ideas (I hope you don't mind):
- does anyone have photos or dimensions of the ambulance spare wheel carrier, mounted on the rear door?
- there is an electrical cable on the bodies. How does this connect to the truck as appears smaller than the 24v interconnect plug?
- if using a redot aircon, using a vehicle compressor. Can an electric compressor be fitted inline, so the aircon works (off mains) whilst the engine is off? Anyone know where to buy aircon hose quick disconnects?
Just founthis thread in here, with some cutting into an ambulance body.... http://real4x4forums.com/PinzgauerBBS/v ... ght=camper
Regards
Mike
(Project Gimpy 2)
Mike
(Project Gimpy 2)
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ABSOLUTSECURITY
- Posts: 212
- Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:26 am
- Location: SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
- Contact:
Thats my rig!
Fiberglass/foam/fiberglass on my box but there are other boxes made of other materials. If its FG on the inside and FG on the outside its foam in between.
After my openings were cut and made the appropriate size and mocked up everything was taken apart again and laminated reinforments were installed into the body that was cutback 1.25 inces into the foam and the laminate wood was epoxied and screwed in place as to make a stable and crush resistant surround to the opening that had violated the bodies integrity. Appropriate holes were bored and BX or MC (metal conduit) cabling in 4 conductor 12 gauge was ran for all my 110/120 volt that took the place of the existing 24 volt wiring that ran from the heater box area to the dome light.
Soon, I plan on removing the red crosses (STICKERS) on the side and cutting in for dual pane thermal glass windows on each side - I will make a new post for that project and for every one to see and comment on!!!!!
Im still trying to figure that out as the body is only around 1.25 inches thick and the windows are 2 + inches deep?????? Might be milling some spacers or sending the existing rings (inside trim) out to have reverse ones made to secure and finish the windows.
Let me know if you have any suggestions??
Oh yeah and 4 ATWOOD electric camper jacks , 2 on each side to raise and lower the box so it can come off and go on.
Glynn
Fiberglass/foam/fiberglass on my box but there are other boxes made of other materials. If its FG on the inside and FG on the outside its foam in between.
After my openings were cut and made the appropriate size and mocked up everything was taken apart again and laminated reinforments were installed into the body that was cutback 1.25 inces into the foam and the laminate wood was epoxied and screwed in place as to make a stable and crush resistant surround to the opening that had violated the bodies integrity. Appropriate holes were bored and BX or MC (metal conduit) cabling in 4 conductor 12 gauge was ran for all my 110/120 volt that took the place of the existing 24 volt wiring that ran from the heater box area to the dome light.
Soon, I plan on removing the red crosses (STICKERS) on the side and cutting in for dual pane thermal glass windows on each side - I will make a new post for that project and for every one to see and comment on!!!!!
Im still trying to figure that out as the body is only around 1.25 inches thick and the windows are 2 + inches deep?????? Might be milling some spacers or sending the existing rings (inside trim) out to have reverse ones made to secure and finish the windows.
Let me know if you have any suggestions??
Oh yeah and 4 ATWOOD electric camper jacks , 2 on each side to raise and lower the box so it can come off and go on.
Glynn
yep!!!ABSOLUTSECURITY wrote:Thats my rig!
Oh yeah and 4 ATWOOD electric camper jacks , 2 on each side to raise and lower the box so it can come off and go on.
Glynn
I was trying to copy some of the pics but photobucket screws them up
It would be good to see your campers jacks.
Did you just use a jigsaw?
Regards
Mike
(Project Gimpy 2)
Mike
(Project Gimpy 2)
712 ambulance makeover
When I was at a Calico MogFest several years ago there was a couple from Germany that had taken a 404 Radio Box and installed hydraulics to raise and lower the top for real good headroom.
That would be similar to the idea of doing that to an ambulance body. There was a canvas section to take up the space and it was very well done.
The radio box is heavy steel but if the amb box is fiberglass it may very well be lighter and somewhat easier to lift off to do the work.
That would be similar to the idea of doing that to an ambulance body. There was a canvas section to take up the space and it was very well done.
The radio box is heavy steel but if the amb box is fiberglass it may very well be lighter and somewhat easier to lift off to do the work.
Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him:
better take a closer look at the American Indian.---Henry Ford
better take a closer look at the American Indian.---Henry Ford
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ABSOLUTSECURITY
- Posts: 212
- Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:26 am
- Location: SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
- Contact:
Dewalt 18 volt circular saw and a sharp blade to cut the straight lines!fesm_ndt wrote:yep!!!ABSOLUTSECURITY wrote:Thats my rig!
Oh yeah and 4 ATWOOD electric camper jacks , 2 on each side to raise and lower the box so it can come off and go on.
Glynn
I was trying to copy some of the pics but photobucket screws them up
It would be good to see your campers jacks.
Did you just use a jigsaw?
Compressed the foam back to add the supports instead of cutting out - figured it would be better to compress the foam and make it more dense than to remove it.
Glynn
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randwolfe
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:26 am
- Location: Shubenacadie, Nova Scotia, Canada
- Contact:
More thoughts on Shelter Structure
This is the type of discussion that I was looking for.
Mike: No problem adding to the shopping list...more data leads to a better design. I look forward to sharing ideas and experiences with you, once I get my Pinz.
Glynn: I like what you did, and would like to see the pics, however, I am also having problems getting access through PhotoBucket. I am particularly interested in your reinforcement around the cutouts, and the jack installation for removing the box.
Right now, I have a 712 AMB-S waiting for me to pick up in a couple of months, and right now, I am doing some preliminary internal layouts, looking to see it it will all fit...
Seasons Best to all.
Mike: No problem adding to the shopping list...more data leads to a better design. I look forward to sharing ideas and experiences with you, once I get my Pinz.
Glynn: I like what you did, and would like to see the pics, however, I am also having problems getting access through PhotoBucket. I am particularly interested in your reinforcement around the cutouts, and the jack installation for removing the box.
Right now, I have a 712 AMB-S waiting for me to pick up in a couple of months, and right now, I am doing some preliminary internal layouts, looking to see it it will all fit...
Seasons Best to all.
Randy Shelaga
1982 712 AMB-S (almost)
Don't Steyr, it's a Pinzgauer!
1982 712 AMB-S (almost)
Don't Steyr, it's a Pinzgauer!
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ABSOLUTSECURITY
- Posts: 212
- Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:26 am
- Location: SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
- Contact:
Re: More thoughts on Shelter Structure
I have yet to install jacks but when I do I will list! Reinforcments are covered up now and IM NOT PULLING THE AC OFF ANOTHER TIME!!!randwolfe wrote:This is the type of discussion that I was looking for.
Mike: No problem adding to the shopping list...more data leads to a better design. I look forward to sharing ideas and experiences with you, once I get my Pinz.
Glynn: I like what you did, and would like to see the pics, however, I am also having problems getting access through PhotoBucket. I am particularly interested in your reinforcement around the cutouts, and the jack installation for removing the box.
Right now, I have a 712 AMB-S waiting for me to pick up in a couple of months, and right now, I am doing some preliminary internal layouts, looking to see it it will all fit...
Seasons Best to all.
LOL!!Glynn
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undysworld
- Posts: 1776
- Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:08 am
- Location: Blue Mounds, WI
I've been reading along for the past couple days, and I guess I should offer my experiences working with foam panel homes, for what it's worth.
In my prior life, I built a couple homes using extruded polystyrene (EPS) foam panels. They were structural type, so they consisted of a 5 1/2" layer of eps foam sandwiched between two layers of OSB (oriented strand board - like a cheap plywood, sort of.
When installing a window, you first needed to cut out an opening. This we cut to the exact dimensions of the rough opening (RO) needed for the particular window using a circular saw and a sawzall. (The RO is 1/2" larger in both height and width than the actual window unit to allow for plumb & level adjustment)
We then removed 1 1/2" depth of the foam which was exposed in the cutout, using a modified oven element bent to melt it out. The mfgr. supplied the tool, which also allowed for a depth-of-cut adjustment for different depth cutouts. This cutout allowed us to install 2x6 wood into the perimeter of the cutout to mount the window into, without diminishing the RO. (This foam was rigid enough that you couldn't simply push it back, it had to be cut/burned out.) Insulation rarely works better when packed in than when installed to the density recommended, though this foam may be an exception to that rule.
When we installed the 2x6, we applied glue to the inner edges of the OSB and spray foam to the EPS. Then we shoved the 2x6s in and fastened them through the OSB.
This sounds a lot like what Glynn described earlier, although I'm uncertain of what he describes as "laminated wood". In our case, with a house, we just used standard construction lumber (SPF). In the case of a vehicle, I'd probably use something water resistant, perhaps even green-treated lumber.
Then when installing the actual window, it gets attached to the wooden surround. We then blew spray foam in between the window and the 2x6s. It pretty much just glued it in place. Mucho strong.
Best wishes and have fun.
In my prior life, I built a couple homes using extruded polystyrene (EPS) foam panels. They were structural type, so they consisted of a 5 1/2" layer of eps foam sandwiched between two layers of OSB (oriented strand board - like a cheap plywood, sort of.
When installing a window, you first needed to cut out an opening. This we cut to the exact dimensions of the rough opening (RO) needed for the particular window using a circular saw and a sawzall. (The RO is 1/2" larger in both height and width than the actual window unit to allow for plumb & level adjustment)
We then removed 1 1/2" depth of the foam which was exposed in the cutout, using a modified oven element bent to melt it out. The mfgr. supplied the tool, which also allowed for a depth-of-cut adjustment for different depth cutouts. This cutout allowed us to install 2x6 wood into the perimeter of the cutout to mount the window into, without diminishing the RO. (This foam was rigid enough that you couldn't simply push it back, it had to be cut/burned out.) Insulation rarely works better when packed in than when installed to the density recommended, though this foam may be an exception to that rule.
When we installed the 2x6, we applied glue to the inner edges of the OSB and spray foam to the EPS. Then we shoved the 2x6s in and fastened them through the OSB.
This sounds a lot like what Glynn described earlier, although I'm uncertain of what he describes as "laminated wood". In our case, with a house, we just used standard construction lumber (SPF). In the case of a vehicle, I'd probably use something water resistant, perhaps even green-treated lumber.
Then when installing the actual window, it gets attached to the wooden surround. We then blew spray foam in between the window and the 2x6s. It pretty much just glued it in place. Mucho strong.
Best wishes and have fun.
Re: More thoughts on Shelter Structure
No worries, we are in the same prediciment as my new box has to be shipped to me (waiting on shipping quotation). So going to be interesting when it gets started.randwolfe wrote:This is the type of discussion that I was looking for.
Mike: No problem adding to the shopping list...more data leads to a better design. I look forward to sharing ideas and experiences with you, once I get my Pinz.
Right now, I have a 712 AMB-S waiting for me to pick up in a couple of months, and right now, I am doing some preliminary internal layouts, looking to see it it will all fit...
Seasons Best to all.
Regards
Mike
(Project Gimpy 2)
Mike
(Project Gimpy 2)
I think will be close as still organising shipping which is troublesome a this time of year then I reckon 4 weeks on a boat, and another week in the customs clearence. Mind you I am calling it a demountable office as I am figuring calling it a Pinzgauer workshop body may cause unwanted notice.randwolfe wrote:Yours for sure, mine is waiting for me to pick up...truck and all, which probably won't happen until May. Until then sketches and requirements/specification development.
I saw a suggestion that a poptop off like a sprinter camper could be bolted in. Mine has a roof rack on it so I wont be doing that.
I may be getting some cutting pictures from someone else, if they turn up I'll let you know.
Have a good new years......
Regards
Mike
(Project Gimpy 2)
Mike
(Project Gimpy 2)