Electric 1972 Pinzgauer 710M Build Thread

Build projects, things that guys have come up with to make a Pinz better (or worse?) and aftermarket add-ons.
User avatar
EV West
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:

Electric 1972 Pinzgauer 710M Build Thread

Post by EV West » Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:06 am

Just wanted to introduce our build and ourselves to your forum.

We are converting a '72 M710 to all electric drive. We plan to use a twin AC brushless motor system that is manufactured here in the US. The battery will be taken from a salvaged Tesla.

Our first off road build was in 2013 when we entered the Mexican 1000 in an all electric off road class 10 car. Here's a photo of that build at the race: https://www.instagram.com/p/cnGGApgXCO/

What really drove us to this project was the capability of the Pinzgauer off road, and to know how much improved the vehicle will be with regards to trails, steep grades, rock crawling, etc.. Our peak torque will be available at 0 RPM, and will be approximately 260 ft/lbs, more than double of the gas engine. When we watch videos of Pinzgauers climbing obstacles, it seems like their only hinderance is a lack of torque, requiring the driver to slip the clutch so much you can practically smell it through the internet.

We'll be keeping it stock (to begin with) from the transmission back. We've had a lot of good luck with ZF transmissions over the years, so we'll give this guy a shot. We'll also be converting to 12 Volt, and a more 'civilian' electrical system. Sure stealth mode is great, but unnecessarily complicates things, as well as the 24 Volt system. We'll be able to keep the 12 Volt system well topped off by charging it from the main EV battery.

We do have a ton of parts from the vehicle that are available, so if you're looking for a used part from the 24 volt system, let us know. The gas engine is also available, as well as the dog house, and center cover since we'll be eliminating the engine cover and positioning a 3rd passenger seat up front.

Here's some pictures of the 710, and we didn't waste any time getting started. Engine and trans are already out, and we're getting ready to take the body off for paint. Thank you Vince and Real 4x4's for offering this place for us to share our build.

Image

Image

Image

(post edited to downsize photos)
Last edited by EV West on Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

undysworld
Posts: 1768
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:08 am
Location: Blue Mounds, WI

Re: Electric 1972 Pinzgauer 710M Build Thread

Post by undysworld » Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:26 pm

Hi EV, and welcome. I visited your site earlier and it looks pretty interesting. Despite my love of infernal-combustion things, I'm curious about electric as it seems inevitable and certainly has some desirable aspects too.
I'll be curious if you can run that much extra torque through the stock drive train, and it seems pretty near impossible to increase it's robustness that much. So I look forward to your results.
I'd always thought an electric vehicle was impractical for off-road, due to the chance of running out of juice away from power sources. A race situation is a little atypical, as there is probably support available. Can't wait to see how this works for you.
In my experience, you don't (shouldn't) slip a PInz clutch that much off road. To the contrary, you let her out and give 'er the beans in low-low.
12v sounds like an advantage in many respects, since you're doing away with the starter and more. Accessories are certainly easier to find in 12v than 24v, and no converter/s needed. Biggest drawback may be in needing to rewire everything, but you're probably going all new anyway I assume.
I love the idea of a third front seat, ideally with legroom too.
Good luck with the details. I look forward to watching.
Paul
It is better to go skiing and think of God, than go to church and think of sport. Fridjof Nansen
I hope to die in my ski boots... ...just not today. Me

User avatar
waterdog
Paraguay
Posts: 250
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:35 pm
Location: Paraguay

Re: Electric 1972 Pinzgauer 710M Build Thread

Post by waterdog » Sat Dec 10, 2016 3:07 pm

this is going to be AWESOME!!!!! :D
....i want that old engine :cry: :cry: :cry:
1985 710MS
1985 712MK
1988 PAJERO CAMEL SPECIAL 042/150

User avatar
TechMOGogy
Canada
Posts: 2745
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:39 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Electric 1972 Pinzgauer 710M Build Thread

Post by TechMOGogy » Sat Dec 10, 2016 3:54 pm

waterdog wrote:this is going to be AWESOME!!!!! :D
....i want that old engine :cry: :cry: :cry:
Its for sale - PM EV West
72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 94 350GDT | 96 350GDT Worker

User avatar
Haf-e
United States of America
Posts: 822
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:25 pm
Location: Mount Vernon WA USA

Re: Electric 1972 Pinzgauer 710M Build Thread

Post by Haf-e » Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:06 am

Very interested in this project as well. I've thought about doing a hybrid drive conversion of my Pinzgauer for a while. I do have an electric Haflinger project which I've just finished rebuilding the nearly the entire steering and brake systems on - it was too scary to drive with old worn brakes and a steering box that tended to bind up at odd times - so I am excited to get it back on the road after not having time to work on it for the last couple of years. Previously I built up an electric sand rail and Porsche 914 conversion back in the mid 1990's, in addition to a number of electric bikes and motorcycles.

While the torque of an electric drivetrain can be much higher than the stock motor - it also is much more easily controlled so there is less "shock" loaded of components - so hopefully you will not experience a lot of failures.

I will be in contact with you as I am looking to replace the current brushed motor to a brushless one on my Haflinger - looking at the HPEV's AC-20 or AC-23 motor with the curtis controller probably. Its set up with a 48VDC battery bank and I will probably stay with that voltage. Its won't see a lot of road use - I usually haul it in the back of my sprinter van instead.

Keep us posted!
Haf-e

1971 Pinzgauer 710M

Image
Disc Brake Conversion Kits for 710 and 712 Pinzgauers
www.klugewerks.com

User avatar
EV West
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:

Re: Electric 1972 Pinzgauer 710M Build Thread

Post by EV West » Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:58 am

Got a good start on the project. Got the body almost ready for the cage to be welded in before paint. We did some rough planning on a roll cage and included some photos below. Any input on our cage design so far is very welcome.

This forum has been a wealth of information for us, so thank you to all the members posting information on their builds. We've already implemented items that we've seen here into our plan.

To Haf-e: You're spot on with being able to have more control over electric torque. We find in our shop that many electric conversions, we can go far past the original power without any driveline issues, and we feel that the smoother power delivery of the electric is the reason for this. This is especially true of AC induction motors that don't have the jerky instant torque of a brushed motor.

For our build it looks like we're going to use twin AC50 motors in an end to end configuration. This will just fit length wise, thanks to the extra long air cooled motor, so we're in good shape.

We picked up some Smart Car seats for the triple seating up front. These seem to be one of the best replacement seats out there, especially since they will fold completely flat, so the center seat can double as an arm rest when not in use. For anyone interested in Smart seats, be sure to check out http://www.autobahnsmart.com/ as we partner up with them on EV dismantling projects. Tell them the guys at EV West sent you and they'll take good care of you.

All of our lockers were frozen, so we've now started the process of re-building all the hydraulics. At this point it's really starting to look like we're going all in and will restore or rebuild pretty much the whole Pinz. We thought in the beginning that certain parts of the Pinz would be 'turn-key' but now we are finding that it's better to be safe and rebuild everything that we can. We will take the body off soon once the cage is finished so we can get to the differentials and drivetrain.

That's all the updates for now. Thanks to all those that reached out over PM for parts. Surprised at how quickly some of them went. Still working on a parts list for you guys, but feel free to PM any questions about what is available.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

User avatar
Haf-e
United States of America
Posts: 822
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:25 pm
Location: Mount Vernon WA USA

Re: Electric 1972 Pinzgauer 710M Build Thread

Post by Haf-e » Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:59 am

Thanks for the update.

On the roll cage - don't tie it into the front bumper - there are rubber mounts between it and the body - the bumper is actually hard attached to the drivetrain - not the body. I would attach the front windshield hoop / roll bar to the body by the front door hinges and windshield hinge mount and just have the front cage around the nose / headlights "float" above the bumper.
Haf-e

1971 Pinzgauer 710M

Image
Disc Brake Conversion Kits for 710 and 712 Pinzgauers
www.klugewerks.com

User avatar
TechMOGogy
Canada
Posts: 2745
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:39 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Electric 1972 Pinzgauer 710M Build Thread

Post by TechMOGogy » Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:16 pm

Smart seats are a smart idea ;)
You will need to remove or cut off the passenger side upper seatbelt guide.
The fold flat feature is great on the passenger side (just clears the upper gun rack)
Not sure your centre will fold flat, it may interfere with the locker levers
IMG_7543.JPG
IMG_7543.JPG (1.89 MiB) Viewed 4262 times
72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 94 350GDT | 96 350GDT Worker

User avatar
audiocontr
Posts: 1782
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 1:30 pm
Location: Detroit Motor City

Re: Electric 1972 Pinzgauer 710M Build Thread

Post by audiocontr » Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:24 pm

I do like those seats. Wonder how much to ship to Detroit...
1973 712m
(2) 1968 Haflingers 1 For Sale
1978 GMC Palm Beach
1979 Mini Ranger For Sale
1986 Corvette For Sale
2001 F250 Diesel and trailer
Company Cars
2017 MKT
2018 F-150

User avatar
TechMOGogy
Canada
Posts: 2745
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:39 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Electric 1972 Pinzgauer 710M Build Thread

Post by TechMOGogy » Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:39 pm

audiocontr wrote:I do like those seats. Wonder how much to ship to Detroit...
They are very comfortable and fit well
I bought 2 sets from a smart forum one set $60 and the other was $50
I think shipping from northeast US down to Tx was well under $100 for each set
Second set was sold to a Mog guy
Be sure to remove the side air bags!!
72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 94 350GDT | 96 350GDT Worker

stiffler4444
Canada
Posts: 774
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:46 pm
Location: Crystal Beach ON CAN

Re: Electric 1972 Pinzgauer 710M Build Thread

Post by stiffler4444 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 6:12 am

Hmmmm....do I see a kit in the future?
1972 710m

User avatar
EV West
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:

Re: Electric 1972 Pinzgauer 710M Build Thread

Post by EV West » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:32 am

Haf-e, Thank you! That was the input we were looking for.

TechMOGogy, we somehow ended up with 3 passenger seats. We'll pick up the driver's side, and will likely use the belt hoops attached to the seats.

Stiffler, we will definitely offer a kit for the Pinz. Looking like it will be a nice fit with 84kWh on board.

Did a little parts procurement over the weekend. We have a new set of gauges that we ordered, and we are converting the cable speedo to electric. Working on an affordable solution that should work well.

Image

Also picked up this little gem. A 1945 Bantam T-3C trailer. Made in June, 1945, this guy has a VIN of just 705. Never seen a 3 digit VIN before. We are planning on stuffing another 120kWh of Tesla cells in the trailer as a range extender to get us deep in the desert.

We also picked up a Max Coupler for the trailer, so we'll have full articulation. The trailer will eventually be outfitted with solar panels, so it can be charging in base camp while the Pinz is out exploring.

Image

Image

Image

That's all for now. Working on getting the cage started this week, as well as getting the motor mounts started, and seats installed. More soon.

User avatar
GenevaPinz
Switzerland
Posts: 516
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:00 pm
Location: near Geneva, Switzerland
Contact:

Re: Electric 1972 Pinzgauer 710M Build Thread

Post by GenevaPinz » Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:10 am

EV West wrote:Stiffler, we will definitely offer a kit for the Pinz. Looking like it will be a nice fit with 84kWh on board.
Count me among the interested followers for a conversion kit! :D

I mean, I am a fan of gasoline as a fuel and displacement as a solution to all transportation problems (daily driver is a '14 6.4 liter Jeep SRT, other toy is a '66 Corvette 427ci...)... and then I sat in a Tesla, first as passenger and then for a test drive. These cars are in a class of their own compared to everything that I knew (and that was running on recycled dinosaurs). I would think the Pinz is a great candidate for such a conversion. And the perspective of driving in the middle of nowhere in relative silence is quite enticing, too.
Jan

'72 Pinzgauer 710M

User avatar
TechMOGogy
Canada
Posts: 2745
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:39 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Electric 1972 Pinzgauer 710M Build Thread

Post by TechMOGogy » Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:29 am

regarding "relative silence"...
This conversion should finally be able to answer where the bulk of the noise comes from.
Many say the drive train vs the motor.
Once this is converted we should be able to see just how much noise the drive train does make!
72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 94 350GDT | 96 350GDT Worker

User avatar
GenevaPinz
Switzerland
Posts: 516
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:00 pm
Location: near Geneva, Switzerland
Contact:

Re: Electric 1972 Pinzgauer 710M Build Thread

Post by GenevaPinz » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:39 am

TechMOGogy wrote:regarding "relative silence"...
This conversion should finally be able to answer where the bulk of the noise comes from.
Many say the drive train vs the motor.
Once this is converted we should be able to see just how much noise the drive train does make!
Yes, the conversion should make it easier to identify the multitude of rattles that occur at different speeds and engine rpms...
Jan

'72 Pinzgauer 710M

Post Reply