What is this tray for?

Build projects, things that guys have come up with to make a Pinz better (or worse?) and aftermarket add-ons.
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mm58
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What is this tray for?

Post by mm58 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:24 pm

Does anybody know what was the original purpose for this tray in the back of a Swiss 710K?
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Mike

'76 710K

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Re: What is this tray for?

Post by whitesik » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:09 am

I am lazy this morning so I won't pull out the parts book but I believe that is the shelf for the bag of snow chains. Good for you if you have all of the shelves. Mine had been removed but included with purchase. They were pretty rusty so it took some work to get them cleaned up and powder coated. Now I just need to figure out how to get them all installed. And find the time!!
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mm58
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Re: What is this tray for?

Post by mm58 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:09 pm

Thanks for the reply. Yes I do remember now about the snow chains. Thank you!
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GenevaPinz
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Re: What is this tray for?

Post by GenevaPinz » Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:33 am

The original purpose of the tray was not to hold the snow chains (they were going, I believe, together with the tool pouch in the compartment below the rear passenger seats, which replaces the "battery box twin" tool box on a 710M).

The rear compartment of the Swiss Army 710K was entirely devoted to "accessories" for the two US-made SE-412 radios (RT-524 is the US designation).
As I only sat in a 710K for a mere 2 weeks in the summer of 1994 while in the Swiss Army, then our unit transitioned to Puch Gs, I don't really remember it that well... then I found the link below, which is a scanned copy of the Swiss Army regulation for 710Ks:
https://www.hamfu.ch/_upload/58.144_d-K ... 78-web.pdf

If you go to page 15 of the document (it is numbered page no. 6 on the document itself), you have the whole setup in picture:

- The big item in the middle under a cover is a power generator (pictured on its own three pages later),
- On the right-side wheel well there are I believe four coils: one of power cord to connect the vehicle (or the radios, cannot really remember) to the power generator, and two of phone line to link the the remote and the radio-side elements of the GRA-39 remote sets, with the two GR-39 remote sets in pouches on the right side of the top tray (They allowed the radios to be operated away from the vehicle, typically in a command post). The last coil was a power cord and allowed the radios to be powered by the mains in case you're not in the middle of nowhere.
- Between the generator and the coils are two MX-6707 antenna bases (upside down).
- Between the generator and the left fender is a long bag with the top elements of the field antennas (the main masts are carried on the front of the truck).
- I don't remember ever using the square-ish box on the right (it probably contains gas and oil for the 2-stroke power generator, which later on they replaced by an extra jerrycan of 2-stroke mix, as we definitely had some extra fuel for the power generator).
- The bag in the tray, just behind the seats has "FA-412" written on it, and it contained the upper and lower guy lines, pegs, the mast base, a hammer to drive the pegs, the mast crank, as well as the antenna cables (two coils of 20 meters per antenna, if I remember well). There is a picture of a raised antenna on page 71 (page 62 on the doc, figure 34). In my memory there was one long bag and one "FA-412" bag for each antenna (so two of each per truck), but seeing the picture it was probably just one bag of each containing elements for two antennas...
- The other item in the tray (between the FA-412 bag and the square-ish box) may be an early version ('70s) camouflage net. When I served in the '90s we had different ones, with rubber canvas "foliage", which usually was in the middle of the top tray.

I hope this helps shed some light!
Last edited by GenevaPinz on Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jan

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Re: What is this tray for?

Post by whitesik » Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:59 pm

That is awesome!! Thanks for posting the link. The photos help a lot and I will take more time to study them. Now, I just need to learn German.
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mm58
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Re: What is this tray for?

Post by mm58 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:19 am

Oh wow. That *is* awesome! Thank you
Mike

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GenevaPinz
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Re: What is this tray for?

Post by GenevaPinz » Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:45 am

You're welcome! I started by typing a post in the line of "I don't remember it that well but it isn't the snow chains", and then I found the link to the document. It's quite a nice trip down memory lane for me, to find this.

I'm just marginally more comfortable with German than you are, coming from the French-speaking part of the country (and the Army had French versions of the manuals for us, too).

By the way, I wrote "fenders" but really don't know if I should edit the post and replace by "wheel wells"...?
Jan

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rmel
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Re: What is this tray for?

Post by rmel » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:11 am

Thanks for the link to this document -- a great find!

As another reference for the Radio enthusiasts and HAM's out there :wink:
Antonio has posted his restoration of the SE-412 command radio system on his FB page below.
All working condition, with some PIC's of his 710 -- to be envied.

The European radio sets for this generation post WWII were not ready for deployment that's why
U.S. radios were used and thus the antenna bases being 4.5" BHC and not Metric.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/Pinzgauer71 ... 7000585319
Puller: 71' 710K 2.7L EFI aka Mozo
Follower: Sankey MK 3, 3/4 Tonne
Rescue Pinz: 73' 712M

Driver: Ron // KO0Q

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GenevaPinz
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Re: What is this tray for?

Post by GenevaPinz » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:20 am

Thanks for the Facebook link, rmel!
I was looking for it but could not remember where it was... I think I first saw it through the yahoo group...

The one thing I never completely understood is why the two radios (three if you include the receiver between them) were mounted on a frame with all 5 elements from a VIC-1 tank intercom system. From my point of view, this added numerous elements and cables that could each be a source of malfunction, with the only advantage being to be able to pass from one radio to the other at the flick of a switch instead of using two different handsets (or unplugging-replugging a headset).
Jan

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Re: What is this tray for?

Post by whitesik » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:50 am

Jan,
I am somewhat bringing my 710K back to original form though adding some up to date accessories as well. Our part suppliers, SAV and EI, lack many of the small parts; things like the shelf straps, front antenna brackets, table supports, etc. Do you have access to those in Switzerland?

Keith
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rmel
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Re: What is this tray for?

Post by rmel » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:34 pm

As a command Vehicle, 2 radios are necessary one to communicate with
the Operations center on one frequency, and another for the actual units
in the field. Third radio is Rx only. You kind'a don't want everyone out
there on a particular channel talking back to central command. This is
why non-command trucks only have one transceiver, you could argue they
only need a receiver and take orders but a "Roger That" is nice to hear :D
Puller: 71' 710K 2.7L EFI aka Mozo
Follower: Sankey MK 3, 3/4 Tonne
Rescue Pinz: 73' 712M

Driver: Ron // KO0Q

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GenevaPinz
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Re: What is this tray for?

Post by GenevaPinz » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:40 am

whitesik wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:50 am
Jan,
I am somewhat bringing my 710K back to original form though adding some up to date accessories as well. Our part suppliers, SAV and EI, lack many of the small parts; things like the shelf straps, front antenna brackets, table supports, etc. Do you have access to those in Switzerland?

Keith
Hi Keith,
Unfortunately not... I've never seen the shelves for sale, and the antenna mast brackets show up sometimes on the "for sale" section of this forum.
Your best bet is maybe to contact Antonio (his facebook page is linked by rmel above) or the guys at http://www.militaerfahrzeuge.ch/. Although they mention in big red letters that their vehicles are not for sale, they may have spares or know a source.
These guys used to have some specific Pinzgauer parts: http://www.green-store.ch/ ...but not anymore (and the memory of the "special tools" crate they had for sale with the spring compressors and half-axle pullers, on which I did not immediately pull the trigger still haunts me...), but not that much anymore. However they have some radio parts:
http://www.green-store.ch/advanced_sear ... &x=14&y=15
...and the power generators...
http://www.green-store.ch/advanced_sear ... at&x=0&y=0
...but I understand this is not what you are after.

For the table by luck I found one on sale here (although there is a Puch G in the background of the pictures, so not 100% sure it will bolt in your 710K straight away): https://www.ricardo.ch/de/a/se-412-funk ... 849749874/

I hope this helps.
Jan

'72 Pinzgauer 710M

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GenevaPinz
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Re: What is this tray for?

Post by GenevaPinz » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:46 am

rmel wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:34 pm
As a command Vehicle, 2 radios are necessary one to communicate with
the Operations center on one frequency, and another for the actual units
in the field. Third radio is Rx only. You kind'a don't want everyone out
there on a particular channel talking back to central command. This is
why non-command trucks only have one transceiver, you could argue they
only need a receiver and take orders but a "Roger That" is nice to hear :D
You're 100% correct: I was affected to the headquarters company of a light air defense battalion. One radio was there to talk to division, the other one to talk to the other companies' HQs. The bit that does not make sense to me is the addition of the VIC-1 to the system. So much complication for so little (if any) in added functionality.
Jan

'72 Pinzgauer 710M

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