Pinz 710M alternator replacement

[Pinz710m2]

Hello. I'm new to the forum, and I've found it to be a great help so far.
I've built Jeeps, but this is my first Pinz, so I'm learning fast.

I searched the forum for answers regarding an alternator upgrade and
didn't come up with anything recent. Has anyone found a replacement
alternator for the stock one? I would like to upgrade the output, and I
understand that it can be rewound up to 55 or 60 AMPs, but I'm curious
if anyone has found a replacement.

Anyone?

[edzz]

I’m curious what you intend to power that will need the increased amperage.

I’m sure that you realize that the stock alternator puts out the equivalent wattage or a 60 amp 12 volt alternator and is capable of supplying said amperage at idle unlike a civilian alternator.

:idea: Many people have found reducing electrical demand by using LED lighting and such will allow the power for other uses.

[Pinz710m2]

Hi Ed. 30 to 35 AMPS is probably great, considering that's what
the original design calls for. But once you start adding some lights,
maybe a stereo, a supplementary heater, winch, dome light, radio,
and various other equipment, the demands build up. I've got to go
on the assumption that at one time of another I'll be using all of
them at once. (theoretically unlikely, but best not to run the batteries
way down) Rewinding mine for 60 Amps is probably more than
enough, but a new alternator might cost the same, if they make one
that fits. I know that's a big "if".

I'm opting for an 18,000 BTU cab electrical heater (usually used on
semi-trucks or in motor homes) with 2 vents, and it draws 45 Amps.
I'm going that route because I would only use it occasionally, and it is
about $2000 cheaper than going with the other alternatives.

Speaking of heaters, has anyone used CEET aircraft tubing to replace
all the old heater tubing? I noticed that the heater tubing is uninsulated
and runs from the heat exchanger outside the cabin, under the truck.
I'm thinking that I can swap out the vent tubing, and seal up the exchanger,
and increase the stock heater efficiency by a tremendous amount. My
heater runs pretty well, but I think that about 10 feet of tubing at $10 per
foot will be well worth the expense and effort.

I'm not making many huge changes. Adding an Ammeter in the empty hole
(waiting until I take care of the alternator upgrade so I can judge which ammeter
to get), and adding some new tires/wheels because it has the original Maloyas
which are pretty much worn out and really, really old. I'm going to supervise the
steam cleaning of the cabin and tool boxes next week, put in the Pertronix ignition,
and change out all the fluids, filters, etc.

Any "first time" fluid change advise? Should I worry about changing out the fluid
in the portals? Or not? Anything else I should maintain from the start, just to have
a starting point? I know this one has been sitting for almost 3 years and had about
500 miles put on it during that time.

I'll take pics and post as I'm able.

[pcolette]

I've used the SCAT and SCEET ducting from Aircraft Spruce. It holds up well and does provide some improvement. Some owners have wrapped their ducting with insulation and reported a noticeable change.

[TechMOGogy]

Welcome to the forum!
Post some pics of your truck for us!
Many have used sceet.
I have read that if you rewind alt you will need to rewire truck as the wiring was not built for that amperage (something to think about as you upgrade)
Cheers,

[Pinz710m2]

Thanks pcollette. Which vent tubing do you think
provided the best insulation? One is about $1 a
foot less expensive, so not a big difference in price.

Also, you're in WI? I'm not far. I'm in a NW suburb
of Chicago.

[Pinz710m2]

@techmogogy

Thanks. It's really not hard to install an upgraded alternator.
The main lead for the alternator needs to be upgraded, and
the leads from the alternator to the starter solenoid, battery,
and ignition switch should be upgraded for best results.
That's really about all that needs to be upgraded (I'm assuming,
based on my Jeep knowledge - someone correct me if the
Pinz is different) The biggest thing is too identify the most cost
efficient way to upgrade. I'll probably end up having the alternator
rewound and cleaned up, but I thought I'd ask just in case
someone on here has found a solution in the past 4 or 5 years
since the last posts. 100 to 160 amp alternators are not
uncommon these days, so I guess a 60 to 100 amp might only
sell in the $150 range ... or am I just dreaming? Something
tells me there's nothing new that can be used, but that's just a
hunch. lol

[Jimm391730]

I'm opting for an 18,000 BTU cab electrical heater (usually used on semi-trucks or in motor homes) with 2 vents, and it draws 45 Amps. I'm going that route because I would only use it occasionally

Depends by what you mean by "occasionally" -- a half hour usage is only 22.5 amp*hours, most wet cell batteries (like came stock with the truck) are 100 or better. So even if you didn't have the engine running, you would theoretically only use 25% of the battery capacity that has to be replaced. However, I don't recommend electrical heaters as I believe you will be disappointed. Think of your typical 1800W little box heater at home (or under people's desks), they don't put out gobs of heat - but 45 amps at 28 volts is only 1260 watts which is only 2/3rds of that heat. You will need a minimum of 10 AWG wiring (8AWG is preferred), and should tap at the starter or better yet directly to the + battery terminal (negative to chassis ground). I would not recommend pulling this much power from anywhere else.

A voltmeter is a much better indicator than an ammeter. The truck charging system is designed to hold the batteries at 13.5 to 14 volts; it is this voltage, higher than 12 volts that charges the batteries. As they get closer to being fully charged, the charging current drops off. A voltmeter, on the other hand, shows what voltage is being created by the truck charging system. If you overload the system, the voltage will fall. If the charging system fails, the voltage will be lower (24 - 25 volts if the batteries have some capacity, 20-22 volts if they are almost dead). If the charging system fails "hi", the voltage will be more that 29 or 30 volts and you will be killing your batteries (I've been on a trail ride and seen it happen; we had to add a lot of water to those batteries just to get home, and ultimately those batteries were toast). If this happens with an ammeter all you will notice is that "hmm, the batteries need charging" and you will likely drive merrily along while your batteries cook, and possibly explode (I've seen that happen, too, but fortunately not in a Pinz). And as a bonus, you can check your battery voltage during cranking to keep tabs on how stout your batteries really are: any cranking with 20 volts or more shows decent batteries; less than 20V and you need a good independent charge or new batteries.

FWIW, I have pairs of 70W headlamps, 70W fog lamps, 70W spot lights, and six 50W floods around the sides and back. All on, they 720 watts (about 26 amps from a 28V system). The stock alternator drives that, plus running lights and ignition and keeps the voltage up. (Note: I've done this for a test, I don't generally drive around with 360 degrees of floodlights!). So for the occasional high load, the stock system does very well, even at "only" 30 amps rating.

Stereos only draw a few amps, even at loud volumes. Winches draw hundreds of amps and can quickly deplete batteries, but if the engine is running then the charging system just goes about its business getting them recharged (may take a while, though). So a winch will always overload the system but since it is run so infrequently it is of little consequence and the stock system works just fine. There is only so much space within the alternator, so rewinding for 50-60 amps output means bigger wire and less turns, and that means that it won't charge at lower rpms. It's your choice, but I'd stay with the stock system until you know you really need anything more.

Change all your fluids the first time, you never know what goo is in there! When I first got my truck, the oil in the diffs came out like wet jello, all congealed and nasty. I wouldn't have know it without draining for fresh oil.

[Pinz710m2]

Thanks Jimm.

As for the heater, in all honesty, I don't think the stock heater
was ineffective until the temp got below 32. So the additional
heater will just be enough to get the job done in the cab, once
I swap out all the vent tubes with CEET and seal up the heat
exchanger.

I'm planning on all the fluids ... everything I can get my hands on.
Is there a specific brand that people on the board seem to have
the best luck with? I've found a few part number lists that show
comparable filters and such. Are there preferred air and gas
filters too? (keepingin mind that everything on mine is 100% stock)
I noticed it had a NAPA oil filter, but I haven't looked at the brand
of air filter yet. (It's been way too freakin' cold near Chicago for
me to work on the Pinz- it was 20 degrees out today!)

[pcolette]

Thanks pcollette. Which vent tubing do you think
provided the best insulation? One is about $1 a
foot less expensive, so not a big difference in price.

Also, you're in WI? I'm not far. I'm in a NW suburb
of Chicago.

The SCEET ducting worked out best. Since it's smooth on the inside also it allows the air to move more freely. It's also available from McMaster-Carr: http://www.mcmaster.com/#duct-hose/=r4i41d

Yup, I'm familiar with Wheeling. Had some favorite restaurants there. I used to live in Lake Bluff.

[audiocontr]

NOS multifuel heaters are $700. Much better heater.

[edzz]

The electric cab heaters used in big rigs are used in relatively well insulated cabs.

If I want electric heat I put on my electric vest.

Where I am we don't see the temperatures you do, coldest I saw this winter while I was out and about was 2 degrees Fahrenheit. I prefer to dress for the weather.

Being as I have had a few Jeeps also my advice is don't try to do things with or to your Pinzgauer as you would with a Jeep.

On changing your fluids, remove your fill plugs BEFORE you remove your drain plugs and if any of the plugs are messed up get replacements before proceeding.

[CentAr712]

Personally, I don't recommend making any mods to your Pinz until you have performed all the basic maintenance and service first. You may be shocked at what basic replacement parts cost. I suggest changing all fluids, including the portals as well as hydraulics and then as far as upgrades, I would be considering the ignition system and new tires first and foremost before considering any other mods. Honestly, after a while of just driving and becoming acquainted with your Pinz, a lot more of this will start to seem clear. Take the time to drive and learn your Pinz before making the decision to change anything. It's just my opinion, but I hope it helps.

[Pinz710m2]

I don't mean to sound snippy, or grouchy, but I get
a kick out of bulletin board people in general. I'm
not a 16 year old kid with my first vehicle, or some
non-mechanical idiot trying to learn how to fix up
an old vehicle. I'm 50 years old and I've had many,
many vehicles that I "built up" or cleaned up, from
scratch. Although I know the responses are well
intentioned, most people really just want to poo-poo
on anyone or anything that someone else says or
does.

I don't say that "i read somewhere" or "I heard"
something, and then parrot it out on the board. I've
taken my physics, engineering, etc., and I figure
it out for myself. And I applaud the people who do so.
For those that don't, start with P=I(V squared) and
work up from there.

So, thank you all for your input. I give it all proper
attention and will do my due diligence as I go.

You'll notice that all my questions regarded assistance
with Pinzgauer-specific items that aren't like other
vehicles. (Like the start of this thread, asking if anyone
makes a replacement alternator that fits on the Pinz)
It's a little irritating that people don't answer the question
but demand that I explain what I am doing and why.

This was not a good introduction to the bulletin board.

Sorry for the rant.

[compunerdy]

You will always find both types of people on forums. If you look at my posts you will see that I do not look at anything as if it cannot be improved upon. You have to take the good advice with the bad. I look forward to what you may share so please do not let a few posts drive you out the door as I am sure they where all well intentioned.