Who Can Do Complete Pinzgauer Restorations?

[nicholastanguma]

I've been toying with the idea of a frame-off restoration for a 710M. The Puch factory in Austria has a program for complete restorations, and the gentleman I spoke with there was very enthusiastic they were willing to build any kind of 710M I want to brand new spec, and with any aftermarket parts I like.

But, as found in this recent thread (viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9327&start=15), it looks like sending a USA registered vehicle overseas for restoration is a good way to get refusal of re-entry into the States. Essentially, the restored vehicle, even though originally a US registered vehicle, could likely be considered a brand new vehicle at Customs, and of course would not meet any modern safety equipment or exhaust emission requirements.

So who here within our beautiful Union can perform a complete frame-off resto to factory spec? I believe Linden Engineering can do it, as Dennis Williams himself assured me. But anybody know of others?

[BobbyD]

The only parties I know of that have the facilities, knowledge and completed builds are Expedition Imports and Linden.

[Andre]

I have a Primitive shop in comparison to Scott or even Prof. Pinz in Oz. I haven't seen or been to Dennis' shop.
I am capable of handling a majority of what can (and should) be done to a Pinzgauer while having the least overhead.

I am not a "do it all" shop. I do what I can with what I have and source out what would be best done by others(Engine/trany rebuilds go to Goatwerks. break down and final assembly is done here, Upholstery is handled by a local shop, etc...)

I haven't built as many trucks as Scott, Thilo, or Dennis have as they have been in that business since the beginning. Brian Mason has built some beautiful trucks worth every penny spent on them. His reputation and experience is often put to work within Expedition-Imports.

Good luck in your pursuit of the Perfect Pinzgauer.

[VinceAtReal4x4s]

Having been there I really don't think that anyone in the US can truly do what the factory can; they just have some amazing one-off tools and testing equipment there, including being able to dip complete bodies into baths. However you can definitely get some great work done by those mentioned and it's a lot more practical and likely cheaper to go that route. Dealing with an overseas project and worrying about importing/exporting issues, which are never straight-forward, can give you a heart-attack and you should hire someone for that too, to be practical, so that's yet another of many hidden expenses. You also need to have specialized paperwork done outside of the export process to keep a US vehicle protected from tariffs, import issues, etc. if its going to Europe and coming back.

And just to add an experienced opinion to that import issue mentioned- it is highly unlikely that a Pinz sent to and coming back restored to the US would ever be held at customs. That is not something they actually look for unless the engine is obviously not an original (although they rarely even look at that) or the paperwork seems off. They are worried about bigger things and clear violations. You are much more likely to run in to major issues trying to export it since they are technically "military" and we have all kinds of insane, over-the-top laws about that... ask me how I know! And just for your info, the emails/info from the customs guys are always going to be a canned response and made to cover their asses and are ALWAYS none specific to your particular needs. Again, hire brokers to handle all of that stuff and pay them well if you go the export route.

You are looking at a major amount of money no matter who you work with, to truly go all the way. I'd carefully sit down and plan out expenses and clarify with them exactly what you mean or want in a "complete" restoration. I'd also get hard delivery dates and have it in writing with clear language about what happens if that date isn't met. There are a ton of resto shops (none of those above!) who will sit on a project like that for 6 months or a year+ longer than they originally claimed due to taking on other jobs while doing yours and general laziness.

[BobbyD]

Agree with both Andre (thank you for pointing out the other skilled folks I left out) and Vince. While there is not a "factory authorized" dealership here, there are resources that can implement your plan and guide you on potential expenses. I look forward to seeing pictures of this process!

[nicholastanguma]

Having been there I really don't think that anyone in the US can truly do what the factory can; they just have some amazing one-off tools and testing equipment there, including being able to dip complete bodies into baths. However you can definitely get some great work done by those mentioned and it's a lot more practical and likely cheaper to go that route. Dealing with an overseas project and worrying about importing/exporting issues, which are never straight-forward, can give you a heart-attack and you should hire someone for that too, to be practical, so that's yet another of many hidden expenses. You also need to have specialized paperwork done outside of the export process to keep a US vehicle protected from tariffs, import issues, etc. if its going to Europe and coming back.

And just to add an experienced opinion to that import issue mentioned- it is highly unlikely that a Pinz sent to and coming back restored to the US would ever be held at customs. That is not something they actually look for unless the engine is obviously not an original (although they rarely even look at that) or the paperwork seems off. They are worried about bigger things and clear violations. You are much more likely to run in to major issues trying to export it since they are technically "military" and we have all kinds of insane, over-the-top laws about that... ask me how I know! And just for your info, the emails/info from the customs guys are always going to be a canned response and made to cover their asses and are ALWAYS none specific to your particular needs. Again, hire brokers to handle all of that stuff and pay them well if you go the export route.

Vince, thanks for so much truly relevant info! Perhaps my dream of a genuinely "brand new" 710M isn't kaiboshed, after all? Since you have actual experience in this area I'm letting myself return to a state of cautious optimism.

[TechMOGogy]

Brian Mason has built some amazing trucks, I saw one of his 710M builds and it looked like it was brand new (it was 8+ years old), looking back I wished I had purchased it on the spot - it sold 2 hours after I saw it! I have not seen what he has done while at EI but that should be a conversation you have with Scott. EI can do pretty much whatever you want.
I chose to go a different path with my build for many reasons but ultimately I wanted to pick what I considered the 'best of the best'.
I had no time constraints for this project as I am busy doing a nuts and bolts restoration on my Haflinger, so I ended up purchasing an unmolested 710M out of NY in March 2013.
I then had it shipped to Jim LaGuardia in CA for a complete engine tear-down and rebuild. The year before I even owned the truck I purchased a 2.7L kit from a fellow forum member as well as other items and parts that I had started to collect. Jim installed the 2.7 kit, rebuilt the motor, added his last EFI kit and finished it off with a custom ground cam. He also did a bunch of smaller items from the clutch, balanced drive shaft, replacement glass (purchased from DD), electrical, brakes, etc etc. As I said, I had no time frame and Jim was welcome to do other jobs in between doing the work for me.
It is now Dec 2014 and the truck has just arrived at Andre's shop in TX for what will end up being very close to a body off restoration (the truck will not be "factory" but modified the way I want it) with many custom fabricated add-ons.
I hope to be driving it next Spring!
Good luck with your project - Jim and Andre are the guys (IMHO) unless you want to go to 1 shop for a turn-key solution then you should give Scott a call (regardless, call Scott as you will no doubt be buying many parts from him and SAV).
OK back to the Haflinger work!
Dan

Edit: when the Brian Mason truck sold Scott mentioned that there were receipts for $25k just for parts for that truck nevermind the months of labor that would have gone into it! Sounds like your budget (unlike mine) is pretty much unlimited so you should be good to go.

[audiocontr]

Why such a strong desire to restore? I could understand those who have owned several Pinz eventually succumbing to the desire for ultimate - but as a new owner, there is SO much enjoyment to be had exactly as it is!

Beat this one up, drive it hard, roll it. Learn what you like and what you dont, learn what you need and what would be just a nice fluffy upgrade. Then stay patient... wait for some of the better trucks to come up for sale and upgrade.

Then again, after owning 3 pinzgauers, I'm starting to lose interest. you may as well

[Andre]

Then again, after owning 3 pinzgauers, I'm starting to lose interest. you may as well

I'm on my third and am looking forward to building a dedicated race rig(body lift, bigger tires and wheels, cage, winches etc.), and a 712m set up for mobile fabrication.

[TechMOGogy]

SNIP

Beat this one up, drive it hard, roll it.
SNIP

Rolling Pinz
http://youtu.be/YYoKok9pRa4

[Andre]

That's about how I treated my first pinz.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Cal ... Filter=ALL

[pinzinator]

Restoring a Pinzgauer would not be that much of a challenge, in my opinion. The biggest hurdle would be the cost, and it would be PLENTY (and that's if you do it yourself)! I've been a car guy all my life, the Pinz is hardly the most complicated vehicle to disassemble or reassemble. It's all just nuts and bolts- a man's puzzle! Send out the diffs, engine, and transmission to be rebuilt, do the rest at home. Don't pay some idiot to screw it up, make it a 2-year project and go to work- after you have all the parts you will need. I would love to have the opportunity to restore a Pinzgauer.

[nicholastanguma]

Having been there I really don't think that anyone in the US can truly do what the factory can; including being able to dip complete bodies into baths.

Vince, does this mean that in addition to stripping off all the 40 year old paint and rustproofing, they still dip the entire body and all its panels into a new bath of rustproofing agent?

[pinzinator]

There are plenty of shops in the USA that will dip entire car bodies. A Google search revealed many, here is a sample- http://www.metaldipping.com/index.php
The factory coating is very difficult to remove, I found that out with my Haflinger. Beware!
Send the mechanicals out to be rebuilt, do the body work disassembly/assembly yourself. You would save a lot on shipping, and customs would not be an issue if you sent the mechanical parts to Europe to be factory restored.

[nicholastanguma]

There are plenty of shops in the USA that will dip entire car bodies. A Google search revealed many, here is a sample- http://www.metaldipping.com/index.php

Thanks for the linky! Very interesting process this company has going, especially the rustproofing part; anti-corrosion dipping for an entire automobile body part, wow! Possibly tremendously useful to me even for other projects of mine that are not Pinzgauer related.