Thinking about investing in a 303!!

Issues pertaining to the TGB/C30X series engine and driveline issues
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iwanna303
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Thinking about investing in a 303!!

Post by iwanna303 »

I've been checking this vehicle out for about 1.5-2 months now. Pictures, Reading info, looking at spec's, More Pics, more reading, But wanted to find out acouple questions first from people who own them.

I Know hands down, with all it's features and capabilities that it would be worth it to purchase one but, What's the reality of me being able to get one that is'nt all rusted out, Has engine tics on idle, or a loose Drive-train?

I'm not concerned about paint colour as i'd be making it alittle more civilian like with alittle more modern look paint wise.

What's it like as a daily driver, not that i'd be driving all across town every day but, Handling on roads and such? MPG?

In august i'm planning to take out a $10,000 Loan and was looking to get a c303 two axle version not the 3. I would'nt want to have to pay back extra for a problematic vehicle you know? Do they run sound? will it last awhile?

How is it or what kind of insurance would i be looking at, being its alot heavier than a normal truck?

Any info you think would be nice pointers for someone thinking about getting one would be awesome.

I am a pretty handy mechanic so work on it would be done by a friend and my self. I'd prefer one of these wonderful vehicles over a more modern vehicle due to clearances and the straight raw offroad vehicle the c303 is, plus the storage,towing capacity, and such. I'd like to get one due to it being bare-bones. Over time updating the middle cab jump seats into a pretty comfortable "Chill" area for those ridding along. Carpets on the sides for sound deadening, Diamond plate flooring, drop down screen with dvd for the kids, and a stereo in the cargo hold area.

I'd like a gradual project vehicle but one that runs strong, without having to put alot in the engine.

Plus useing it to carry our camping gear.

Thanks, Ryan "23 years old by body"
"Expedition man and explorer by heart"
Looking for first C303 experience
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VinceAtReal4x4s
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Post by VinceAtReal4x4s »

Well, first off you won't find a nice 303 for $10k. If I were to sell mine, which is rust free and almost perfect mechanically, it wouldn't leave me for less than $20k.

I dont know what running "sound" means. Handles great considering the age and size.

MPG? If that worries you, dont get a 30yo military vehicle. Think 10 to the teens, if you are lucky, for any of these machines.

The towing capacity of these vehicles isnt that great.

Its not that heavy and that has nothing to do with insurance anyway, which will be liability only (unless you find a naive insurance company)

I'd spend more like a year checking something like this out before you take out a loan.
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iwanna303
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Post by iwanna303 »

Thanks vince,
I've been wanting some feedback from someone who actually drives one, and knows alittle or alot about them. I know $10,000 wont get one but puts me closer to the $13,100 list price of one on extream Off road vehicles . Com. I know i cant get the real nice ones for that price, But more leaning towards A stock Military version instead.

As far as the MPG goes, I'm sure theres some things to boost it up. I've seen A Fuel filter catalyst thing which makes for a stronger octane for better clean MPG. Switching the Ignition from Carb, to that 123 thing should help to. My girlfriends Chevy lumina only gets 15-17mpg average so im not really worried about fuel, more on the lines of how many miles per tank, roughly.

I'm rethinking the c303ing thouh, taking your advice and waiting awhile before making the descition to buy one. Maybe acouple years. I should probably wait on the c303 and just get a more modern vehicle which should do just as good as the 303 with some 35's,locking diffs, and some air lockers. wont have as much clearance or capabilities but probably close enough. I found this sad video today, and got me kinda second guessing the 303.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVZKMVTtKzE
Looking for first C303 experience
p0x1c
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Post by p0x1c »

The thing with the tgb's are they are really underpowered. Also they are a do everything vehicle, so they wont be able to tear up deep water-mud like a skied, powerful bronco or other 4x4 with a huge v-8 and tons of torque to the rear wheels. Power adders are copious and I'm sure there are plenty of options available for different engine swaps with more power. you talked about a 123 system. You may wanna check out a Mega Squirt EFI system. They are affordable and you have a ton more capability with them msefi.com. One thing to keep in mind is I hear that the portal axles due to gearing and such are kinda weak in taking tons of torque to the wheels. I may be wrong so correct me if I am. maybe some things to keep in mind. Good luck from your fellow 23 year old ambitious dreamer/ dece mechanic!
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Post by VinceAtReal4x4s »

Uhh, what was it that was sad about that video clip, besides the horrible quality? No other stock vehicle would be doing any better and would likely not even get in as far. I can show you videos of M1 tanks getting stuck in the mud on level ground. Does that mean they are sad too? What about a $90,000 Rock Buggy blowing 2-ton axles apart while just climbing a 4ft. boulder? A MAN 8x8 stuck in some sand on level ground? Open your mind a little to what you are really looking at.

The 303 is one of the top two or three most capable (overall), street-able 4x4's on earth, or it can be the worst with a bad driver. Deep mud isn't wheeling, by the way, its what ignorant people and kids, or people with endless bank accounts, do with their trucks. Mine has never seen deep mud like that and never will. If you want to do that kind of thing, load up your biggest V-8 Redneck cruiser with some beer and some 40" tires and have fun in your nearest field. You can easily go to the local junk yard later and scrap it or buy all the used parts you'll need for cheap.

And those mods. you are talking about will do nothing for the power. The fuel thing you are talking about is a rip-off scam. An elec. ignition, if that is what you meant, doesn't make an old engine more powerful. Changing to injection is nice but you better have a master tech do it and a few $1000 to do it right.

All I can say is "good luck" with any Extreme Vehicles buying. Let me know how that works out. And my truck is a basically a stock mil version and it is worth well over $13k.

The Volvos are actually powered just like all the other 4x4's in this class. They weren't meant for highway cruising and spin-outs. My 303 is just as fast or faster as an older 2.25 Land Rover, Pinzgauer, 4/5cyl. G class, or 6.2 Mil. Hummer, etc. Portal axles actually handle torque extremely well. Even better so when it was designed for a given engine, like the one the 303 comes with.

Learning real driving technique will get you further than anything else. You dont need some 200hp jeep and 35's to do well (not that I think that would be a good choice for anyone!). I have, countless times, out wheeled the most modified toys out there with my 1972 77hp diesel Land Rover with it's 31" tires with no lockers. And I drove myself home every time.
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p0x1c
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Post by p0x1c »

huh wow, i didn't know the portals were stronger. I hear you on the highway thing too. And most of all I hear you on the driving skill, that is by far the key that turn the lock. What I'd say is why not use technology and skill available to us to taylor make our prospective vehicles. I really want a 1314 for its expedition abilities and increased head-room and cargo space. I love it that the 303s come with every thing you need basically, everything else is an add on. Here were the reasons for my suggestions:
- the msefi system is not only inexpensive, but it is actually very shade-tree mechanic friendly. This would allow more and better power, but also allow one to run a "Browns gas" supplement. These usually add 50% to gas millage and also help the environment. The reason for a msefi system opposed to a stock system is that its cheaper, you can convert a carbed engine easier (TBI vs. TPI), the microsquirt system comes with a weather sealed unit, climbing steep inclines, and this system means an easier compatability with the browns gas system.

- an engine swap is more than just power for me. pushing a vehicle way past its oem power is not smart even with the most darastic strengthening measures. I would like to see a toyota gasser in a volvo. Why? affordability, parts availability, and many off road options. I would love to use the volvo stuff, but for crawling a crawl box like toyota has would be awesome. no more high rpm stuff, just ease the clutch out and idle up and over whatever you need to. I don't know what that means. with all the brackets and stuff you need, it may just be more affordable to put an Atlas behind the B30 for the crawl ratio desired.

these are my thoughts, but I admit I am new to these beauties and I mean all of this in the upmost respect (especially to those that are owners) and I am on the road of learning and debating whether this truck is the right one for me ::fingers crossed::
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Post by VinceAtReal4x4s »

The kind of mods you mention are hard enough to pull off in your average 4x4, but in a 303 they become almost impossible. Engine swaps have been thoroughly researched by smarter people than I and to do it properly you are looking at a min. of $15k. This being a swap where you stand to gain something significant over the stock motor without injuring the rest of the original design. The 303 presents huge challenges in this area, big ones of which have to do with being able to cool anything more powerful. The laws of physics come into play here and solutions are not easy. Exhaust and overall dimensions of the engine is a whole other issue. I've seen diesel swaps done first hand in Sweden but there was little to nothing gained in the swap besides an increase in fuel mileage but it would take the average owner many, many years to regain the swap expenses in fuel savings.

Adding "crawl boxes" is again almost impossible because of room. You are dealing with around 91" of wheelbase. You dont have room to play with anything. The transfer case is unique and any external mods there require real engineering from the ground up, nothing is going to bolt in, not even close. I believe someone once spec'ed out adapting an overdrive that fits a Land Rover to it and it was about $4000 in machining expenses alone. One of the guys on here is working on something but it's not a reality yet.

The best mod you can make to a 300 series is to insulate the interior a little more, get rid of the stock motor fan and replace it with electrics and, like the Pinzgauer, replace the tires with the best radials you can afford. If you have the money, take the stock motor out and have a racing engine firm build it up (blueprint/balance). Have them do any carb replacement if you go down that route as none of that is as simple as you may hear or read.

In the end you'll find major repowering of a 303 an equal investment amount to buying it to begin with. You and others may think there is a home-built way around my advice, but trust me, there isn't.

I could have picked ANY 4x4 on earth to own for myself, I've been exposed to them all and driven just about everything. I finally chose a 303 (after owning Land Rovers for years and a few Pinzgauers, Mogs, G-wagon) because I wanted, specifically, a small, under 8000lb. hard-top 4x4 I could sleep in and that I could use for worry-free expedition style off-roading (not stupid show-off crap). The 303 beats everything out there in ability and functionality for this purpose, and I mean everything. It also looks great, is highly unique and is easy to work on. You pay for this in parts availability and in fuel mileage. I put maybe 300 miles on mine in the last year so no big deal for me. My next trip to Utah will spike that figure.
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Post by p0x1c »

thank you for all your help and advice. I had figured that using the B30 may be the only (practical way to go). Also, it came to my mind when I was thinking about crawl boxes and such, i remembered that the 303 had a mid engine and the extra length could spell disaster in that department. I guess now is just a matter of weighing out everything. The only other vehicle I would even consider over a 303 would be a Toyota FJ80, but that again takes a ton of money to get truly off-road ready, even to get a capable as the 303. Also I wouldn't be dealing with portal axles, something I really desire. Thanks again for all your direction mate.
I want one of those, and those, and those...oh...I guess not
iwanna303
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Post by iwanna303 »

Wow, i think my thread got jacked. oh well, was'nt going any where i think. No, what was sad about that vid is it getting stuck. even the 6 wheeled ones. Just so you know i'm not the muddin type, I Like trails, Forest running, Hills, stream crossings, and some rock crawling. The 303 would be perfect for what i'd need in a vehicle.

I know its not the most powerfull machine, but thats not what i want. For the power it does have, it uses it to its advantage. Pulling every bit of efficiency and stregth out the pretty simple drive system. I'm not saying simple, just its Bare bones escentials.

I Dont know how someone ending up saying about rip offs while talking about fuel systems. I Said i would want to switch to fuel injected due to steep climbs and such. i guess thats what the 123 thing is, i dont know.

Anyway, you guys say extreame vehicles.com is unreliable. Where would i go about getting a plain straight 303? Not someones done up one for $20,000+ dollars, but one of the plain, army painted ones, with metal floor, the uncomfortable jump seats, the Metal grid work b/w the cargo hold, and those ugly fold out mirrors?

Thats the kind of 303 i want, not all done up by someone else. Thats the stuff i want to do to it. Vince said his would'nt leave his SIDE for less than 20, and thats a fully done up, new paint, New tires, new, new , new type. Is that 20 for stock, or 20 for a done up one?

All i'm saying is if its 20 for a done up one, a stock should be had for atleast 13-15.

Not saying imma get from extream, but whats the problem? Have you gus dealt with them? Who do you suggest i see for a stock one, 1975 would be nice. Maybe one with that zinc-oxide body, or not.

How much did you guys get your stock 303's?
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Post by Jim Molloy »

Gentlemen,

Listen to the sage advice Vince is giving. I spoke with him for a couple of hours before I went on to purchase my truck more than five years ago. At that time, he had no vehicles available for sale. I also have personal experience with Xtreme Vehicles as this is from where I chose to purchase my former fire fighter TGB11. My best advice in dealing with this firm is to make a very detailed pre-purchase inspection, test drive the vehicle as much as you can and pay to have a competent mechanic evaluate the vehicle. Know, in advance, what you are getting. With that said, I am glad I purchased the truck I did. It remains my primary daily driver in which I have logged over 80K miles. Last Saturday, I spent the day on very narrow Pacific Northwest trails with three Unimogs and felt no disadvantage at all. The Volvos mechanical layout, size and power-to-weight ratio and accceleation make it a phenomenal all around high mobility vehicle.

Currently, we are doing work on a Mercedes five cylinder OM617A turbo-diesel conversion into a Volvo 6x6 truck (former ambulance). The owner purchased the SMT conversion kit for the later OM603 (non-turbo) six cylinder engine. He supplied us with an OM603A engine (with a cracked oil pan and other issues) and then opted to give up on the project. We now own the truck. Since we have access to several inexpensive five cylinder motors and the the orginal B30A was no longer available, we decided to not waste our resources. The fastr spinning Mercedes five cylinder is a very nice fit producing equal horsepower, slightly more torque, far superior economy and can be operated on bio-diesel (which we already utilize on our farm).

We have also just completed the installation of a stock B30A ifor a friend with another 6x6. This is his third motor. The first he ran at a constant high speed trying to achieve 4x4 speeds from his 6x6. He burned a hole in the top of a piston. The second he had bored to 3.3 liter displacement along with a pair of Weber downdraft carbs on custom JAM Engineering intake manifolds and again tried to reach excessive road speeds with his 6x6. Another catastrophic failure. This is where the overdrive unit comes in.

As Vince referenced, there is work currently underway to produce a bolt-on prototype overdrive unit. Projected cost will be in the $1200-1500 range according to the manufacturer. Unfortunately, this is not a high priority project for the manufacturer. Sales volume is not going to be substantial compared to the other units this firm currently produces. I do not see any huge advantage to an O/D unit on the 4x4 other than lower engine speeds when highway cruising. Anyone who thinks the stock Volvo 4x4 needs higher road speed is inviting disaster. If, however, the 6x6 trucks had a comfortable crusie speed of 55-60mph, an overdrive would be well worth the effort. One would be hard pressed to find a better expedition vehicle platform than a turbo-diesel Volvo 6x6 former ambulance with an overdrive.

Neither the OM617A diesel conversion nor the overdrive unit are for the faint of heart. They are automotive engineering exercises and, hopefully, successful, practical and reliable alternatives to the status quo. Please take Vince's advice to heart. He has been dealing with these truck far longer than I and I have the utmost respect for his opinion.

Take care.

Jim Molloy
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p0x1c
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Post by p0x1c »

:oops: ha sorry mate, I'm in the same boat as you, and am filled with questons... I talked to David over at xtreme vehicles and he said expect to pay 12-15 for a less desirable ones and 16-18 for ones in good condition. it's def an investment, but from what it looks like and Vince's experience actually owning one, along with other 4x4's I believe it would be a worthy one.
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Post by Jim Molloy »

Gentlemen,

This just came through our Volvo4x4 contact page:


Hi, I am selling my 1975 tgb11. I has been gone over top to bottom by Dennis at Linden Engineering. It is in great condition, had a 2\" DOM roll cage, 12000lb/24v warn winch, ladder on the back, expedition bumper, diamond plate rock slider panels, and the fuel filler moved to the right rear quarter panel. I have no more room and have to get rid of some vehicles. If you know of anyone interested I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you.

Jerry Cidzik


I do not know Jerry nor do I have any financial interest in whatever deal he brokers. I have asked for general information such as price, location, odometer reading and photos.

At this point, unless a dealer in the US deceides to jump in with both feet and start importing trucks, your best bet is to keep your eyes and ears open for private sales or look at importing a truck from Europe. There are several firms in Sweden that can supply trucks but I would highly recommend you ask a Unimog or Pingauer importer in your area to assist...and be willing to pay fairly for their time and trouble.

As far as Xtreme Vehicles goes, when one looks at the "Vehicles In Stock" page, I believe it should more accurately be labeled "Vehicles I have sold over the years." I see only one TGB1111 that is up for sale and that is a consignment truck. The custom black TGB1111 "Stealth Lizard" has now on its second new owner since David sold the truck a few years ago. His "Vehicles to Arrive" page deals with an engine conversion and not what trucks are en route. On the Special Orders page, both TGB13s and TGB20s are covered but not the TGB11s or the 1111s. Ask David when he next plans to have trucks arriving from Sweden. By the way, you can see the nose of my little red truck peaking out behind the blue, black and white C303. If memory serves me correctly, the blue truck sold a year after mine or about four years ago. There is a lot of history to be found on the Vehicles in Stock section. If one didn't know any better, one might think there is a huge volume being sold and demand far outstripped supply.

Good hunting.

Take care.

Jim Molloy
Waldersee Farm
http://www.northwestmogfest.com
http://www.volvo4x4.com
TGB1111Moab
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Volvo TGB 1111 or 303

Post by TGB1111Moab »

Great 4X4 I have the TGB 1111 and it is unstoppable. I have been on the trails in Moab with crawlers and this thing will go just about anywhere. If you can find one you will not be dissapointed.

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Post by ka »

whereabouts in utah are you? i was thinking i'd like to see your truck in person. i've never actually seen a volvo.
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TGB1111Moab
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Utah

Post by TGB1111Moab »

I live in Centerville but head done to Moab 1-2 times a month and also hitting other trails around the state. Just went to Delta and they have some great trails.
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