New guy calling, about to grab my first c303....some Q's

Issues pertaining to the TGB/C30X series engine and driveline issues
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MadMax
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New guy calling, about to grab my first c303....some Q's

Post by MadMax »

Howdy, MadMax here, finally going to take the plunge and isolate myself from the mundane world of normal vehicle ownership and get something worth driving. Ive been searching for about 6 months, doing lots of research (love this site, btw, its been a huge help in learning about all this...). I'm in Gig Harbor, across the sound from Seattle. About a year ago I saw my first Pinz, and fell in love. I missed buying one about 3 months later for about 4K, and decided then and there I had to get something like this, jeeps be damned.

After a few months of searching I came across this:

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I saw it initially here, it went away, then came back on another forum, then went away again. I've finally found it and spoke to the owner and have pretty much decided on a purchase. I had a couple questions for the folks here re. this c303:

1. It didnt sell for a while, im wondering if anyone has any previous knowledge of it here. From what I gather, you guys know just about every pinz and volvo in the US, lol, so I wanted to ask if you are familiar with it.

2. Its in Canada, and Im in US. Major hassles in getting this across the border? I wondered if this is what kept if from selling. Ive read that through NAFTA I am able to DRIVE this back into the US without paying fees as long as my paperwork is in order, made easier by the fact that its older than 25 years, which saves me from some emissions/gas/safety regulations. Any help or advice from those with experience in this area would be appreciated.

3. Its got a 164 engine in it with about 15K on it, not the original b30, but other than that it he said lots of work has been done on it. Aside from some checking for rust, anything that should send up a red flag for me when I go to see this?

4. Since im making one trip up there to Canada and purchasing it then (barring any major problems), I have one dilemma: Having never driven anything like this, and having limited experience with a manual transmission (Its been a long time since I drove a stick) should I drive this thing home the 200 miles, or should I pay the extra to put it on a trailer until I can get it checked out and filled, bled, tweaked and cleaned, etc. (the owner says it will make the trip fine)?

I do plan on doing some extensive work to the interior to make it more campworthy, though the exterior mods and mechanicals will stay pretty much as is for now. I will definately post once I get this and begin doing some work to it out in the barn. Im very excited to be part of the community of people who drive awesome things, and part of the forums here, you guys rock. Also looking forward to being part of the NW muddy people contingent and associated events with my soon-to-be Zombie Apocalypse vehicle.

-MadMax
Where science and technology fail, art survives.
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berger
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Re: New guy calling, about to grab my first c303....some Q's

Post by berger »

MadMax wrote:
2. Its in Canada, and Im in US. Major hassles in getting this across the border? I wondered if this is what kept if from selling. Ive read that through NAFTA I am able to DRIVE this back into the US without paying fees as long as my paperwork is in order, made easier by the fact that its older than 25 years, which saves me from some emissions/gas/safety regulations. Any help or advice from those with experience in this area would be appreciated.
That is a very nice looking truck and I remember when it went up for sale here.

I wanted to comment on the importation. Even though my experience is going the other way, it may help. I helped a buddy bring a TR8 from Maryland to Canada and he had to contact the US Customs office in Ogdensburg, NY because that is where we were crossing back into Canada. He had to make sure that the bill of sale, title and all the pertinent documents were in their hands 48hrs before we arrived there. They will not do it on the spot. Once he got through US Customs, he just had to pay tax on the Canadian side.

You should call the Canada Border Services Agency and find out what they require. You may also be restricted to where you can cross, as some places, both US and Canada, are not equipped to handle vehicles.

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/trade/basic_ ... ehicle.xml
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Doccers
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Re: New guy calling, about to grab my first c303....some Q's

Post by Doccers »

Hello! i can help answer some of the questions here but not all.

1: These are rare vehicles, and not many people seriously consider owning them, or believe it's just too far outside the mainstream to be able to reasonably own and operate. I've seen this truck around a bit as well and haven't seen any reason for it being "bad" in any way shape or form. It's just not a high volume, fast moving market, is all. :)

2: This one I can't answer, I'm afraid I'm just not familiar with importation. Mine was already in the US. Anyone else?

3: a Volvo 164 uses the B30 engine, though depending on the years it could be I think a B30A or a B30E. If he's already got a B30E in there, I think that means it's already fuel injected, which would be a huge bonus! The engine's are pretty much identical, the main difference as I recall is the E has fuel injection and a higher compression head whereas the B30A was a dual strombourg carb and a special low compression head fitted to it. Ask if the engine's ready for unleaded fuel, the original B30A's were meant for leaded fuel, so you normally need to do work on the valve seats to get it ready for unleaded, (or just use additive or fill up with high octane fuel). My guess is the B30E would be set up for unleaded already, but it's worth asking.

Looking at the photos of this truck from the earlier threads it looks like he's done custom exhaust work. I'd slide under the truck and just look to see if there's no obvious issues, but from the quality of the work I've seen in the photos I would suspect that the exhaust will be in perfect shape as well.

4: I'd do a test drive around the block a few times to see if you have a feel for it before making a 200 mile trip (laugh), but if everything's in working order you should be ok if you keep a couple things in mind:

1: These vehicles are SLOW. They are not designed for freeway cruising. A C303 like that at least has the higher speed axles, so you *MAY* be able to keep up at 50-55 MPH, but if you hit a hill, you're dropping down to 45 or below. :) It may be worth it to plot out a course that does not take highways/interstates.

2: These vehicles are LOUD. I don't know if he kept the stock fan set-up since he swapped the engine, but I'm going to assume he did - it's a mechanical fan-on-a-stick that is NOT clutched, so it's directly tied to engine RPM's. it is VERY LOUD. It is like having a P-51 mustang prop-driven fighter sitting next to your knees. Bring earplugs and expect to take frequent breaks to clear your head. :)

2.5: Even if he did swap out to an electric fan system, the trucks are still pretty darned noisy, they're not designed with noise insulation in mind like all modern cars. :)

In terms of actually driving it, I hadn't driven a manual transmission vehicle in over 15 years before I got my 304. I decided to practice a bit with a standard little mazda b-series pickup before receiving the 304 (I had mine shipped since it had some mechanical problems and california to colorado is about a thousand miles over very steep mountains), and in all honesty I found the Volvo's transmission setup easier to drive than the mazda's. But your milage may vary. The main thing to keep an eye on is the shifter has the transfer case controls on it as well, unlike most trucks which have the transfer case as a seperate shifter. So if you're not paying attention, you can drift too far to the right and engage low range (which also turns on the 4wd system) instead of shifting into 3rd. Mind you it's a pretty far travel to the right, but it's something to be aware of. :)

Reverse is gated on the left side with a thumb lever, so if you can't figure out why you can't find reverse, remember to hit the lever. haha.

The b30 series engines are pretty torquey, which is nice with a standard transmission IMHO.

Congrats on your purchase! If everything with importing it works out ok, you're going to love the truck. :) I look forward to seeing any posts you have about your work on it - I'm converting my c304 to a camper as well, but it is slow going at the moment due to my job vanishing out from under me, haha.

Also tell me more about the NW, I'm looking to moving out to the washington area in a couple of years. Need to make sure my 304 is ready for that trip! hahaha.
NoahDL88
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Re: New guy calling, about to grab my first c303....some Q's

Post by NoahDL88 »

I'm over in Bremerton, wouldn't mind meeting up and checking out your new rig, I'll bring the Pinz!
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Re: New guy calling, about to grab my first c303....some Q's

Post by sixbennetts »

Welcome! I just recently got my first Tgb111C fresh of the boat from the Swedish army. We'll be learning about them together. Yours is a work of art, mine more of a blank canvas, with holes in it.

:-)

Doccers, can I ask you about this statement, please? Does this mean that if I use high octane fuel, I DON'T need lead substitute?
Doccers wrote:....... (or just use additive or fill up with high octane fuel)......
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Re: New guy calling, about to grab my first c303....some Q's

Post by HafWit »

It seems that most of your questions were answered, but I can tell you that the Volvo TGB11/C303 does a better job at maintaining freeway speeds than the Pinzgauer 710 series. My Volvo has been converted to fuel injection by Jim LaGuardia (a well-known Pinzgauer specialist here in CA) and now it has a lot more guts. I am looking at switching to a larger radiator with electric push/pull fans at some point, but for now I am caught up with getting some parts that are hard to source here. The original CV boots are rubber and one of mine needs replacement where the rubber cracked. There is a company in Sweden called Tatanka Parts that supposedly bought up all the remaining Volvo spare inventory, but I found another source that has aftermarket CV boots and difflock membranes made of polyurethane rather than rubber. I would expect these to hold up for longer than new old stock rubber parts. I will certainly let everybody here know if I am happy with them. Other than that, you will find that B30A engine parts are shared not only with the 164 Volvo sedans of the same era but also with the boat engine called AQ170. Some suspension and brake parts are from Series II Landrovers. Some parts are unique to these vehicles and are hard to come by :shock: . This is probably one of the main reasons there is not a high demand. I would bet that more Volvos were dismantled to use their axles on other offroad vehicles than were kept whole. Because of this, there are some options you can pursue in kit form for things like disc brakes. If you are looking for easier part availability, a Unimog or a Pinzgauer might be a better choice. Whatever you decide, post pictures of the vehicle you end up getting. I'd love to see more detailed interior shots of the urban camo Volvo if you end up with it.

Cheers,
Greg
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MadMax
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Re: New guy calling, about to grab my first c303....some Q's

Post by MadMax »

definately purchasing this, barring any major import difficulties or mechanical surprises (though neither seem likely at this point). I will do a full picture series on this once I get it here, should have it home by mid-October. Got the funds ready and went and got my DL passport ordered a couple days ago.

I have posted on the general forum some ideas I have for possibly converting this to lithium polymer electric power (using the new ThunderSky batteries from japan) and the WarP11 motor from NetGain, though this wouldnt be something i would do for at least a year. The prices have come down on batteries considerably, and the efficiency gone up. Though initially a pricey way to go, for 10-15K$ I can have an extremely efficient propulsion system that would last me for 9-12 years without replacement if maintained and managed properly, with no trips to the gas pump and no loss in functionality to the original capabilities of the vehicle (more than enough torque with that Warp11 motor to do everything the b30 does). With a system in that price range, im adding under 1000lbs (after removing the weight of the existing powertrain) and would end up with a system capable of about 100 miles and easily top out at 70mph, recharge in about 8hrs on 110v or 4 @ 220v, can be done with a standard outlet with the former. Definately considering the options at this point. Converting to EV is not like it was - the field is changing very rapidly, and its much easier to do this than it was 5 or even 2 years ago. Polymer batteries just came onto the scene really within the last year or so.

Additionally, and perhaps most important from a historical preservation perspective, this changeover could be done now with a minimum of hacking apart of the volvo. Systems now are at a point where it could allow for the original drivetrain to be swapped back in later, leaving most of this rare beast intact. I feel that is an important aspect of this - to keep as much of the original intact as possible while allowing for the change.
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Re: New guy calling, about to grab my first c303....some Q's

Post by Doccers »

Sixbennets: As I understand it, so long as you run the higher octane fuel, you can get away with no additive - the additive just raises the octane. The whole problem is leaded fuel was a very high octane fuel, and as you go down in octane, you get more of a chance of pre-detonation, which would damage the valves/seats. On modern cars the seats are hardened to deal with occasional problems like that, but with leaded fuel you didn't have to worry about it at all. At least, that's my understanding of the issue. I'm not an automotive engineer by any stretch of the imagination. :)


Electric is definitely coming into it's own, but I still feel it has a step or two to go on storage before it's really ready. 100 miles really isn't very far, and 8 hours to charge is a long long time.

Then again I'm up here in Colorado, distances are a bit longer to go anywhere around here.

Ideally I'd still like a nice diesel engine in mine, but that's a considerable way down the line. The stock engine does just fine for 90% of what I do with it, and the other 10% is just not being able to take I-70 into the mountains - I drop below the speed minimum going up the hills *laugh* so I take the back roads instead.

I'm still saving up money (now that I'm employed again yaaay) so I can downsize my tires, I have a feeling one reason I can't maintain speed going up hills is the ridiculously oversized tires mine came with (and Vince gives me poop about every time I post haha).

But even smaller tires costs money. Especially when you replace them 7 at a time. :D

[edit] I am corrected!
Last edited by Doccers on Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New guy calling, about to grab my first c303....some Q's

Post by VinceAtReal4x4s »

The stock 303 needs 89-90 octane fuel and the lead alternative additive is needed due to the lack of lead in fuel, which use to aid (lube) the valves.
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Re: New guy calling, about to grab my first c303....some Q's

Post by sixbennetts »

Ok, that's what I thought. Thanks.
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Re: New guy calling, about to grab my first c303....some Q's

Post by CentAr712 »

My recommendations:

1. Absolutely insure the vehicle is older than 25 years old because if it's not and you somehow manage to smuggle it into the USA, you won't be able to get insurance on a gray market truck, nevertheless license plates.

2. What happens if you buy it and then realize you can't get it across the border? To prevent the bad possibilities I suggest that you go to Canada to test drive it, but have the seller drive it across the border and conduct the transaction in the USA. This way there is no doubt about your ability to get it home.

Good luck!
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Re: New guy calling, about to grab my first c303....some Q's

Post by mad_as_hec »

If pursuing the electric conversion, make sure that you have torque limiting on the controller for that warp motor. It will snap an axle like a stick of celery if you have full traction and full torque. I would really like to see a hybrid electric setup using a Capstone or Bladon microturbine "range extender". Best of both worlds.
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