Fuel Injection Patton style

Issues pertaining to the TGB/C30X series engine and driveline issues
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HafWit
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Re: Fuel Injection Patton style

Post by HafWit » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:05 am

There was a 712m Pinzgauer over at Goatwerks when I picked up my Volvo that had the LEDs on it. Jim demonstrated them to me before I took off and drove 70 miles in the dark with the very dim lights on my Volvo. While there are better 24V incandescent lights than the ones mine has currently, I was intrigued by the LEDs in that they draw less power, are likely to last longer, and they are supposed to be more resistant to rock damage. Whether the plastic gets clouded over time and makes them less effective or not is an unknown to me. I also have powerful Golight turrets on the roof both front and rear that will give me extra off road coverage if I need it. These are of course illegal for highway use, but I figure new headlights (standard or LED) will be sufficient to solve my current issue.

Cheers,
Greg
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HafWit
a.k.a. Phlyphysher, Greg, & Clamphysician
1967 Swiss Haflinger, 1975 Volvo C303

dokatd
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Re: Fuel Injection Patton style

Post by dokatd » Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:45 pm

Update for an old thread, I installed the Patton parts on my Volvo awhile back and have driven it quite a bit. The system runs well if its tuned well. I ultimately had to do all the programming myself for multiple reasons, but the truck runs great. I still have a few items I will be working on (daily driver so not much time to polish the install) but will post some pics later. The install is brutally easy and the parts quality is good as well as Ricks service. I do recommend using your own computer and programming your own chip if you feel up to the task. I am more than happy to share my prom files to anyone with the understanding that it would only be a baseline and would still need to be tuned to your engine.

To sum up, its a great update to an old truck.

dokatd
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Re: Fuel Injection Patton style

Post by dokatd » Sun May 29, 2016 6:37 pm

No real particular order to these, some are older than others.Please feel free to ask about any of it. One major note is the coaxial pipe fittings I made. I built a coax pipe fitting for vacuum that the map sensor and the IAC connect to. I also built a coax fuel return pipe. And by coax of course I mean Coaxial where one pipe extends through another. The fuel return is not as much of a coax as the Map/IAC is. The fuel one simply re-directs the return fuel down the fuel tank vent pipe rather than back up into the fuel cap. The Map/IAC one has a 4" or so smaller pipe running down the middle of the 90* elbow so that the map sensor reads the map from the intake manifold only and is not altered by the flow/pressure of the IAC.

I CAD drew all the white plastic parts for the computer and printed them on my printer. The bulge on the computer is to accommodate the universal chip and zif socket.

I still have a long way until it is the way I want it, I will be changing fittings and hoses over time once I feel comfortable with the configuration. Biggest change will be all stainless braided Teflon fuel hoses with better fittings. I really don't like the hardware store fittings but much of it was what was supplied in the original kit.

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rmel
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Re: Fuel Injection Patton style

Post by rmel » Sun May 29, 2016 7:05 pm

Got it running? Curious how you dialed in the MAP settings.
What did you pick for a O2 sensor/AFR instrumentation.
Puller: 71' 710K 2.7L EFI aka Mozo
Follower: Sankey MK 3, 3/4 Tonne
Rescue Pinz: 73' 712M

Driver: Ron // KO0Q

dokatd
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Re: Fuel Injection Patton style

Post by dokatd » Sun May 29, 2016 7:23 pm

It has been running on the fuel injection for quite some time now, more specifically since October 3rd as I recall. You data log with the EFI computer so it allows you to see what the engine is doing. After you data log you can use the info you recorder to modify the fuel tables. I use protuner which gives you 3D fuel tables that you can work with. Programming the computer is very easy once you understand the fundamentals. Programming is not for everyone that's for sure as you can easily cause problems that could be anything from catastrophic to just really annoying.

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rmel
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Re: Fuel Injection Patton style

Post by rmel » Sun May 29, 2016 7:37 pm

I am running with a SDS ECU, high performance but poor data logging.
Spent time on a dyno to get dialed into the "zone", then I used my iPhone
to snap PIX's off the hand held controller for MAP, RPM, ADV, AFR to fine tune.
Huge PITA. Now my buddies at SDS have a USB port on the latest version of
the ECU to data log -- thinking about it, but these ain't cheap. BTW I am using a
PLXdevices wind-band AFR -- highly recommend these.
Puller: 71' 710K 2.7L EFI aka Mozo
Follower: Sankey MK 3, 3/4 Tonne
Rescue Pinz: 73' 712M

Driver: Ron // KO0Q

dokatd
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Re: Fuel Injection Patton style

Post by dokatd » Sun May 29, 2016 7:58 pm

That SDS system is interesting. I like the redundant options that pulled over from experimental aircraft. Having the ability to data log in detail is a bonus for sure. I expect to regions the cam eventuall and port and polish the head so being able to log easily will be great. But if you have yours the way you want it then I wouldn't care to much about the upgraded unit with USB.

Klug
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Re: Fuel Injection Patton style

Post by Klug » Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:13 pm

Hello.

I have a zillion questions!
8)

I'm currently talking with Rick about a kit for my Vattenfall (and Claes for parts and Martin/Tiagra for brakes).
Things are eventually moving after letting the truck in a barn for several years.

One of the question is the ability for the ECM to handle E85 (Ethanol) as well as E10/SP95 (standard gasoline here in France) without swapping the EEPROM.
Have you tried that?

Another question about one of your pics. I can see an air filter/breather not far from the coil. What is its purpose?
It can be seen on this pics: http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c93/d ... 8BD61C.jpg and http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c93/d ... D6022C.jpg

While I understand the way the coax MAP/IAC works, I don't really understand why you built it.
Isn't it possible to simply put the MAP and IAC in two different places (far enough one from the other)?

This one might sounds stupid: were you able to fit everything with the engine staying inside the truck?

Because it's "Bosch-based", the ignition cannot be controlled with the GM ECM.
Have you experienced issues because of that (knocking? stalling? other?)?

Which tire size are you able to use now?

Isn't the TPS too much of a hassle to setup?

That's quite all I think of right now...
Thanks a lot.

BTW: I love the printed bits for the ECM.

dokatd
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Re: Fuel Injection Patton style

Post by dokatd » Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:26 pm

Klug wrote:Hello.

I have a zillion questions!
8)

I'm currently talking with Rick about a kit for my Vattenfall (and Claes for parts and Martin/Tiagra for brakes).
Things are eventually moving after letting the truck in a barn for several years.

One of the question is the ability for the ECM to handle E85 (Ethanol) as well as E10/SP95 (standard gasoline here in France) without swapping the EEPROM.
Have you tried that?

I do not see a reason to believe it would not handle it just fine. But please do not quote me on that. A simple reprogram will address any issue though I am sure.

Another question about one of your pics. I can see an air filter/breather not far from the coil. What is its purpose?
It can be seen on this pics: http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c93/d ... 8BD61C.jpg and http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c93/d ... D6022C.jpg

The filet is for the IAC valve. I may change it later as it is a bit noisy with the filter on it.

While I understand the way the coax MAP/IAC works, I don't really understand why you built it.
Isn't it possible to simply put the MAP and IAC in two different places (far enough one from the other)?

The coax fitting is to eliminate the need to drill into the manifold. The cast manifold has bosses where it is threaded, drilling elsewhere in the manifold, though not a big issue, is not always desirable and can lead to cracking or stripping etc. So I kept the manifold stock by building the coax fitting. And quite frankly it is much faster to build the coax than strip down the manifold to drill and tap it then hope to remove all the shavings before you start it back up.

This one might sounds stupid: were you able to fit everything with the engine staying inside the truck?

Engine stays in place for sure, its an easy install.

Because it's "Bosch-based", the ignition cannot be controlled with the GM ECM.
Have you experienced issues because of that (knocking? stalling? other?)?

I have a 123 ignition. It still cannot be controlled by the ECM though. I do not appear to have any ill effects. Rick can modify your stock alternator though if you want to have ignition control which is desirable in hindsight I think

Which tire size are you able to use now?

I am running about a 35" tire. The truck runs well on them and easily keeps you up with traffic up to its practical top speeds.

Isn't the TPS too much of a hassle to setup?

TPS is easy enough to set, I would not say it is a hassle

That's quite all I think of right now...
Thanks a lot.

BTW: I love the printed bits for the ECM.

Klug
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Re: Fuel Injection Patton style

Post by Klug » Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:55 pm

Rick said he could not modify a C303 genuine distributor (Bosch-based and not Lucas-based), I'll double check that with him.

I have to dig a bit more about that coax...

The IAC is not mandatory, as far as I remember (no AT nor AC).
What does it bring?

dokatd
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Re: Fuel Injection Patton style

Post by dokatd » Wed Jun 22, 2016 1:38 pm

Klug wrote:Rick said he could not modify a C303 genuine distributor (Bosch-based and not Lucas-based), I'll double check that with him.

I do not recall, but I could have sworn he offered when i originally bought my kit.


I have to dig a bit more about that coax...

The IAC is not mandatory, as far as I remember (no AT nor AC).
What does it bring?

IAC is important while off-roading as it will reduce the occurrence of stalls. It also helps you maintain a more consistent idle especially when the engine is cold. I would not run fuel injection without it personally.


Klug
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Re: Fuel Injection Patton style

Post by Klug » Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:34 am

Rick confirmed he can not modify the Bosch distributor. So it'll be 123ignition too (already have mine, was working perfectly).

He also checked with the injection guys, they can add the real "flex fuel" feature to the harness.
The option uses a genuine GM flex-fuel sensor, hence its price ($450 for the option, the sensor itself is about $350).
A bit too expensive for me.

Is a standard EPROM burner OK?

dokatd
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Re: Fuel Injection Patton style

Post by dokatd » Tue Jul 05, 2016 6:43 pm

Klug wrote: Is a standard EPROM burner OK?
I would get the Burner 2 from Moates. You will need a universal chip to reprogram unless you want to buy a UV eraser so you can use factory chips. I am also using a zif socket so I can swap chips easily and quickly.

Klug
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Re: Fuel Injection Patton style

Post by Klug » Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:53 am

Burner2 was on the short list (if no universal burner could be used).

With such an adaptor?
http://www.moates.net/gp1-package-gm-ad ... -p-41.html

Or that kind?
http://www.moates.net/gx-switching-adap ... -p-87.html
http://www.moates.net/g2x-tbitype-switc ... -p-86.html

dokatd
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Re: Fuel Injection Patton style

Post by dokatd » Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:44 pm

Klug wrote:Burner2 was on the short list (if no universal burner could be used).

With such an adaptor?
http://www.moates.net/gp1-package-gm-ad ... -p-41.html

Or that kind?
http://www.moates.net/gx-switching-adap ... -p-87.html
http://www.moates.net/g2x-tbitype-switc ... -p-86.html
This is what I ordered. But you need to be sure which computer they send you with your kit from Patton as things change in the later years.

1 x G2 Memory Adapter: 0.60" Leg Spacing (G2-0.60) = $30.00
1 x 'BURN2 Chip Programmer' (BURN2) = $85.00
1 x C2 SST 27SF512 Chip (C2) = $5.00
1 x S4 Aries 28-pin Low-Profile ZIF (S4) = $7.00

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