Ian's TGB13 6x6 (Australia)

Volvo TGB and 30X (303/304/306) mods and resto work, news, resources and non-technical stuff
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Garrycol
Australia
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Re: Ian's TGB13 6x6 (Australia)

Post by Garrycol »

If you are going to all the trouble of doing a conversion, the 300TDi just does not provide the grunt needed for this type of vehicle. This has been shown time and time again when Landrover FC 101s have been converted to the TDI. The standard V8 in the 101 has trouble getting it moving along and the Tdi struggles even more, albeit a lot better fuel consumption.

The go with the 101 is a 6 cylinder Cummins :D
1973 Haflinger AP700
1977 Landrover FC 101
2007 Range Rover Sport TDV6
1971 Jaguar Series 3 E-Type Conv
1957 Landrover 88" Station Wagon
1957 Landrover 88"
one2many
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Re: Ian's TGB13 6x6 (Australia)

Post by one2many »

Garrycol wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 8:37 am If you are going to all the trouble of doing a conversion, the 300TDi just does not provide the grunt needed for this type of vehicle. This has been shown time and time again when Landrover FC 101s have been converted to the TDI. The standard V8 in the 101 has trouble getting it moving along and the Tdi struggles even more, albeit a lot better fuel consumption.

The go with the 101 is a 6 cylinder Cummins :D
Cummins 4bt/6bt are great engines but a poor choice for Volvos, they are just too tall and all transmission/t-case options are very loooooong when Volvo 6x6 needs an especially short driveline because of the "mid" engine design, the engine sits completely behind the front axle and the middle axle shortens everything from the rear. The resulting available space is less than that of even SWB 4x4's.
I'm not too familiar with the 300tdi so can't really comment on its suitability for a Volvo except to say I've heard about a few converted Volvo 6x6's/300tdi getting around Europe and UK...can't say I've read anything too negative about its suitability.
I don't know a great deal about 101's either but I suspect it's difficult to compare these two vehicles in the way you outlined. What's the final drive ratio of a 101? I'd be surprised if it was even close to a 6x6 13xx Volvo at 7.1:1 or even with Roobars modification at 5.99:1 is probably still a heap lower than the 101 ratio which is probably (guessing) around 4.6:1 or even as high as 4.1:1, please correct me if I'm wrong. But if I'm ball park correct about the gear ratios then these vehicles are too different to make any kind of comparison like... The 300tdi doesn't work in 101 so won't work in a Volvo either.
A successful petrol to oil burner engine conversion is all about the gearing, get it wrong and it will be a resounding failure, this is why so many Diesel engine conversions actually become conversions of the entire driveline...trans,t-case and ring and pinion ratio changes are very often all required to make a successful conversion...Roobars plan uses all these methods and appears to be well considered.

Roobar, It looks as if the "spotted" Volvo will stay hidden a while longer.
1985 pinzgauer 712K factory 2.7lt civilian (RHD, 4 door K)
1979 Volvo tgb 1314a (under construction to om606 diesel/722.6 trans. Dual cab/tray)
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Garrycol
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Re: Ian's TGB13 6x6 (Australia)

Post by Garrycol »

The Cummins was just an example of other engines - irrespective of that the 300TDi is just too small and low powered for these type of vehicles particularly when you take into all the engineering needed to put them in - if you are going to go to all the effort of changing engines, the new engine needs to deliver a lot better performance and the 300tdi just does not do that - even a TD5 with a stand alone ECU is superior.

The diff ratios on the 101 are 5.7:1 - tfr case ratios are pretty low particularly in low range - probably similar to the Volvo. If this Volvo has the LT230 etc in it then it will be higher ratios than the 101 system - so swings and round abouts. Though as a general statement when changing from petrol to diesel you need higher gearing particularly in high range due to the lower revs of a diesel - if you leave the gearing the same you just run out of revs before you even get to cruising speed. With the 101, you move to 4.7:1 diff ratios, .993 hi speed gears in the hi range tfr case, risk putting an overdrive on the tfransfer case and increase tyres from 35" to 37" all to keep revs per kph in the diesel down - the increased torque of most diesels can handle this (300 TDI has trouble - it has trouble pulling a Disco or Defender around)

But that is not my point - there are better engines than the 300 TDI around when you take into costs and engineering into account.

A very interesting discussion though.

Cheers

Garry
1973 Haflinger AP700
1977 Landrover FC 101
2007 Range Rover Sport TDV6
1971 Jaguar Series 3 E-Type Conv
1957 Landrover 88" Station Wagon
1957 Landrover 88"
roobar_and_custard
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Re: Ian's TGB13 6x6 (Australia)

Post by roobar_and_custard »

I wonder too if the 300TDi is the right choice too, but I do know if it doesn't work, then I can upgrade to the HS2.8 as a direct bolt in replacement. The 300TDi also came with a Disco attached which offered up parts for another project that I'm not currently working on. :(
Ultimately these decisions are based on what we know and what we can afford - and currently I think I will stay the course with the 300TDi.

Although - the OM603 (or other derivatives) is something that I must look into before I start making any irreversible changes...

Need to get the garage built first :wink:
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Garrycol
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Re: Ian's TGB13 6x6 (Australia)

Post by Garrycol »

Yes all interesting stuff - there is a company in Coffs Harbour that is putting the 3.2 litre 5 cylinder Duratorg diesel engine out of the Ford Ranger/Mazda BT50 into Defenders so have managed to get the ECU to run stand alone. The other good engine is the old Mazda 3.? diesel out out their small trucks from about 20 years ago - I think the same was in the Ford trader.

There are lots of alternatives out there but it is hard to work out what may be suitable. Some 101s have had the Toyota 80 series 6 cylinder diesel put in but the 101 is almost mid engines so lots of room infront of the gearbox where I understand the Volvo does not have that luxury.

Get that shed built and tell us what you decide to do. LS3 crate engine?? 8)

Garry
1973 Haflinger AP700
1977 Landrover FC 101
2007 Range Rover Sport TDV6
1971 Jaguar Series 3 E-Type Conv
1957 Landrover 88" Station Wagon
1957 Landrover 88"
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