Engine rebuild

Engine issues go here.
NM_Mogman
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:08 pm
Location: Rio Rancho, NM

Engine rebuild

Post by NM_Mogman »

So, I have recently had a bunch of work done to my 718 (IP rebuild, Injector rebuild, new timing belt, new glow plugs, belts, starter, etc...), and she is still spewing clouds of black smoke and consuming oil faster than it should. I am having a compression test done this weekend and, should the compression be below 28 bar, I will need to have her rebuilt. Does anyone have a recommendation for a shop in the western U.S., preferably in New Mexico? Any good leads on where to buy a new or reconditioned block? These D24T's seem to be quite the rarity here in the states!

I will check the usual dealers but, I do not recall ever seeing 718/716 motors for sale. Also, it doesn't hurt to ask.

Thanks,

Phil
User avatar
Haf-e
United States of America
Posts: 822
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:25 pm
Location: Mount Vernon WA USA

Re: Engine rebuild

Post by Haf-e »

I would just look for a complete Volvo diesel car with reasonable miles on it - I did a quick craigslist search and came up with two:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/cto/4851685185.html

1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turbo Diesel - $3200 (santa cruz)

1985 volvo 740 GLE Diesel odometer: 134400 paint color : red type : sedan drive : rwd fuel : diesel transmission : manual title status : clean cylinders : 6 cylinders

Rare turbo diesel 740 sedan for sale. In great running shape. D24T inline 6 cylinder turbo diesel engine. Starts up on the first or second crank everytime. Engine is very strong. Full maintenance records going back to date of purchase. Power everything all works, alloy wheels, 4 speed manual transmission with a factory push button to engage 5th gear works perfectly. Could be converted to veg oil.


Here is another: http://eugene.craigslist.org/cto/4837543834.html

1989 Volvo 760 TIC Wagon, D24t Swap Volskwagen Turbo Diesel TRADE? - $4750

1989 Volvo 760 wagon with a fresh built (<10K) D24T Turbo Diesel engine. Engine was fully rebuilt by machine shop.. New valves, guides, oversized pistons, bearings, water pump, timing belts etc. Have all paperwork. Engine, trans, and rear end are diesel specific. The D24T is a diesel engine that was manufactured by Volkswagen. Volvo requested a larger diesel and VW acquiesced by taking there hugely successful and popular 1.6 Turbo Diesel engine and elongating it by two cylinders. These new 2.4L engines produced 110hp, even though they are capable of much, much more. Most of the engine internals are the same as the VW: rods, bearings, pistons, rings.. as well as much of the not internal components.
Haf-e

1971 Pinzgauer 710M

Image
Disc Brake Conversion Kits for 710 and 712 Pinzgauers
www.klugewerks.com
User avatar
Haf-e
United States of America
Posts: 822
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:25 pm
Location: Mount Vernon WA USA

Re: Engine rebuild

Post by Haf-e »

Here is another ad that looks interesting as the guy says "I specialize in these D24 engines..."

https://delaware.craigslist.org/cto/4833276002.html

1980 Volvo 240 264 DIESEL - $2000 (Newark/Bear)

Up for sale is an extremely rare 1980 Volvo 264 (240) diesel 4-door sedan. It has a 6-cylinder non-turbo Diesel engine. This is a factory Diesel engine. It was made for Volvo by VW/Audi. Volvo calls it a D24. The troublesome 1st year engine with 11mm head bolts was replaced with a 1983 engine that has the 12mm head bolts, and it appears to have been rebuilt at some point. Only 5w40 synthetic oil was used and is necessary in this engine. 15w40 and non-synthetic oils cause excessive wear in these engines. Just driven on a 375 mile trip with no problem. It does not smoke or use any oil. This is a very basic car; no factory a/c, manual windows, etc. Simple and economical. Just replaced a rear brake caliper 12/30 and had the exhaust system axle pipe replaced 12/31. On 1/10, the oil was changed as well as the fuel filter. You can get antique tags and insurance and save a ton... Passed Delaware inspection on 12/31, and is currently registered (tagged) in Delaware as an antique. Gets over 30mpg! I specialize in these D24 engines, and this one is one of the best running ones that I have seen in a long while. It is extremely rare to find one that runs so well and does not smoke or burn oil. Email or text ONLY. Will NOT answer phone calls! Please include your email address in the reply as craigslist blocks email addresses and sometimes replying to the craigslist emails results in the response going into spam folders. Car is located in Newark, Delaware 19702. Not in a hurry to sell it. First $2000.00 cash takes it. Price is FIRM. Not interested in negotiating on that price... I will simply keep it. Thank you.
Haf-e

1971 Pinzgauer 710M

Image
Disc Brake Conversion Kits for 710 and 712 Pinzgauers
www.klugewerks.com
NM_Mogman
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:08 pm
Location: Rio Rancho, NM

Re: Engine rebuild

Post by NM_Mogman »

Haf-e,

Thanks for the info! May be more economical to simply buy a car and then transplant the motor...I wonder what internal differences there are between the N/A vs. turbo? Could I just bolt on the turbo and call it done? Also, it is too bad those electronic overdrive son the manual transmissions could not be bolted up to the end of the auto box...it would be nice to have a few in-between gears! I may have to research that a little...

Thanks,

Phil
User avatar
Haf-e
United States of America
Posts: 822
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:25 pm
Location: Mount Vernon WA USA

Re: Engine rebuild

Post by Haf-e »

Yes - that is what I would consider doing as well - especially the car from Santa Cruz which looked to be pretty unmolested... always suspicious of other people's rebuilds...

There is a wiki about the differences between the D24 and the D24T versions - typically add-ons like oil squirters inside the pistons and different compression I think. Here it is - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_D24T_engine

"The engine is constructed in an identical manner to the earlier Volkswagen D24 engine - but includes an turbocharger to improve performance. the engine head is modified compared to a naturally aspirated engine. The valve zone is not flat anymore but slightly hemispheric . The engine block is equipped with oil squirters(with pressure valve) for better cooling of the pistons. The pistons are modified on the skirt zone to not interfere with the oil squirters during the strokes. The injection pump (bosch VE) is adapted to the turbo system."
Haf-e

1971 Pinzgauer 710M

Image
Disc Brake Conversion Kits for 710 and 712 Pinzgauers
www.klugewerks.com
NM_Mogman
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:08 pm
Location: Rio Rancho, NM

Re: Engine rebuild

Post by NM_Mogman »

Well, it looks like my motor needs a rebuild or replacement! Compression was at 250-320 psi... The problem seems to be that parts for these motors are near impossible to find. I wish I could just replace it with something more readily available. Anyone got a line on rebuild parts for the D24T?

Thanks,
Phill

P.S. I still have not ruled out buying a car with the same motor, just would have to make sure I am not getting a second motor that needs building!
Profpinz
Australia
Posts: 1056
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 7:08 pm
Location: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Contact:

Re: Engine rebuild

Post by Profpinz »

These D24T's seem to be quite the rarity here in the states!
....and you think you've got problems; the D24 was never imported into Australia in any vehicle.

Their are a few other "upgrades" on the later engines....a few that I can remember off the top of my head are:

1.The pistons are different as they have slots in the skirts for the oil injectors.
2. Earlier models used 11mm standard head bolts, later units used 12mm TTY head bolts.
3. Earlier models had a slightly different crank bearing setup.
4. Some ancillary components have been upgraded (eg coolant unit under the oil filter, dipstick etc)
Peter

1974, 712 6X6 Pinzgauer
1983, 710-1.6 4X4 Pinzgauer
1997, 718 6X6 Pinzgauer (in pieces)
1971, 700 Haflinger
1974, 703 LWB Haflinger
2001, Range Rover

http://www.ozpinz.com
NM_Mogman
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:08 pm
Location: Rio Rancho, NM

Re: Engine rebuild

Post by NM_Mogman »

That really does suck. So, what have you decided to do? Rebuild or use a different motor? I have not looked into what it would take to transplant the 5 cyl. motor. I would really like to stick with an all mechanical motor...
Profpinz
Australia
Posts: 1056
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 7:08 pm
Location: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Contact:

Re: Engine rebuild

Post by Profpinz »

When I imported the vehicle, I had bring it into the country without the motor and gearbox.....Australian Import rules :x
I did consider leaving the motor in Malaysia and fitting a later 5 cylinder VW diesel, but like you, I like the idea of a vehicle without electronics.
On long distance outback touring many 4X4's have big problems with their electronics and when your possibly many hundreds of km's from civilisation that's something you don't want to happen, so I opted to stick with original D24Tic......I'm NOT good when it comes to electronics, and pray everytime I fire up my Range Rover that all the dash lights go out :D

The problem with the D24T is it's an old motor so some spares are difficult to find......I'm currently having problems replacing the "one use" TTY con-rod bolts and nuts, but I may have a fix (I'II let you know later if I have)......I always find it weird that it's far easier to get parts for my 40 year old Steyr Puch air-cooled motor than it is for the much later VW engine.

Like any diesel it's expensive to rebuild the D24Tic properly, mainly due to the pump and injectors, but it is doable.
As far as I understand the D24T is quite a solid motor but NEVER overheat it, hence I'm looking at an upgraded cooling system particularly as it could be operating in 40C+ temps in the outback.

Good luck with your decision as to either rebuild or replace the motor.
Peter

1974, 712 6X6 Pinzgauer
1983, 710-1.6 4X4 Pinzgauer
1997, 718 6X6 Pinzgauer (in pieces)
1971, 700 Haflinger
1974, 703 LWB Haflinger
2001, Range Rover

http://www.ozpinz.com
mopar
United States of America
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:15 pm
Location: Metrowest MA

Re: Engine rebuild

Post by mopar »

Hecklebone in CO has a spare set of pistons and gasket set he was selling for $500.
He did a rebuild and had a D24 guy help him so maybe a good resource. Definitely got to d24t.com they know that engine.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/UST ... messages/6
http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/Heckl ... 4.jpg.html

I had thought about grabbing a spare volvo engine to build a little stouter engine for more power these posts looked promising but was never sure how the power would go with the rest of the driveline.


http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums ... p?t=120967

http://d24t.com/showthread.php?p=3018#post3018

1974 712M AKA the Banana
1974 710M AKA the project truck
1987 718M Now Sold
1975 Volvo TGB1111 Now Sold
1973 Pinzgauer 712M x2 Now Sold
1963 404S Now Sold
Profpinz
Australia
Posts: 1056
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 7:08 pm
Location: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Contact:

Re: Engine rebuild

Post by Profpinz »

The D24T Forum is a great source of info.....I joined about 4 years ago and they have been pretty helpful, but unfortunately "Jason" one of the really knowledgeable members, sold his Volvo and moved on not so long ago!
Peter

1974, 712 6X6 Pinzgauer
1983, 710-1.6 4X4 Pinzgauer
1997, 718 6X6 Pinzgauer (in pieces)
1971, 700 Haflinger
1974, 703 LWB Haflinger
2001, Range Rover

http://www.ozpinz.com
NM_Mogman
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:08 pm
Location: Rio Rancho, NM

Re: Engine rebuild

Post by NM_Mogman »

What do any of you know about the possibility of using the 300td from a Mercedes? It is a mechanical motor and has a great torque curve!
NM_Mogman
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:08 pm
Location: Rio Rancho, NM

Re: Engine rebuild

Post by NM_Mogman »

mopar wrote:Hecklebone in CO has a spare set of pistons and gasket set he was selling for $500.
He did a rebuild and had a D24 guy help him so maybe a good resource. Definitely got to d24t.com they know that engine.
I have actually sent Hecklebone a message regarding his rebuild but have not heard back from him yet. I have also contacted a couple of the vendors on the D24T.com site and have found quite a few parts so far.

Good to hear from you again!
NM_Mogman
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:08 pm
Location: Rio Rancho, NM

Re: Engine rebuild

Post by NM_Mogman »

Hello all! It has been a while since I had any progress with my Pinz but, I finally got the head out and to the machine shop! They told me that the valves are in perfect shape, which is surprising when you look at the pics of the Pistons....I am looking for any crossover part numbers that anyone may have for the D24T, namely the Valve Guides, Valve Seals, Cam Seals, and Head Gasket?

EDIT!! I found exactly how to figure this out in the manual. It is based on the stick out of the piston at TDC. Question: is there a preferred gasket out there? It seems as though the gaskets are pretty restrictive to the coolant flow....

About the head gasket. I am wondering if I actually had the correct gasket to begin with? The manual talks of the Head Gasket either having 1-3 notches in it and two different thicknesses of 1.5MM & 1.6MM w/the 1.6MM being the 3 notch variety. Is there any telltale way of verifying EXACTLY which gasket I need? The last thing I need is to get the thinner gasket and find out later that I needed the thicker gasket :oops: . I would prefer to only have to do this once.

I look forward to the learning and enjoy the pictures!

Image

Image


Image
Profpinz
Australia
Posts: 1056
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 7:08 pm
Location: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Contact:

Re: Engine rebuild

Post by Profpinz »

Re gasket thickness, I asked a similar question of some of the experts on Robi's Forum (German Pinzgauer & Haflinger Forum) in particular WF who knows Pinzgauer's backwards.....his expertise is well known on the Forum.

I was told to always fit the thickest MLS gasket available (ie. 3 notch) and that in Europe VW/AUDI repairs normally fit the thickest gasket as standard.
The following reasons were given:

1/. It minimise the smoke/dust layer on the valves and pistons.
3/. The slightly lower compression increases motor durability/life particularly under high boost.

Additionally I was told the slightly lower compression produces no notable loss in power or performance.

As regards changing motor brands/types guys have fitted various units including BMW and later model 2.5 VW units as per the AT built TD's, but personally I like the idea of fitting a Steyr Monoblock. One day I might seriously look at fitting a Monoblock.
The four cylinder Steyr was originally mooted to be fitted to the "new" TD, but when VW worked with SDP on the Synco, a "deal" was struck to use the 2.4, six cylinder motor instead. I understand one of the test 718's still in Magna's fleet is fitted with an M14 Steyr and AT's Pinzgauer II prototypes were fitted with six cylinder Steyr's.
Peter

1974, 712 6X6 Pinzgauer
1983, 710-1.6 4X4 Pinzgauer
1997, 718 6X6 Pinzgauer (in pieces)
1971, 700 Haflinger
1974, 703 LWB Haflinger
2001, Range Rover

http://www.ozpinz.com
Post Reply