Air shock absorbers

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gunipinzmutt
Italy
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:40 am
Location: Italy

Air shock absorbers

Post by gunipinzmutt »

I have all my shock absorbers, on both 716s of mine, with rubber part damaged.
Does anybody know whether shocks can be rebuilt or if there is any compatible substitute in the market or if I have to apply to s-tec for new ones.
Otherwise, if I chose to give up with air system, what springs and traditional shoks absorbers I have to look for?
Thanks for your help.
Gunipinzmutt
Pinz: 710 m, 710 ms, 710 k, 712 m fla, 712 k, 716 m, 718 m san, 716 k, 718 rehinbraun
Haflinger: 700, 703
G: 250, 270, 400, 350
Unimog 406
M825, M151 A2, M416
Fiat Panda 141A 4x4
Fresia F18
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David Dunn
United States of America
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Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 7:08 pm
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Air shock absorbers

Post by David Dunn »

I don't know it they're available over there, but try looking at Air Lift or Firestone for air springs, or you're looking for springs and shocks to replace the system.
.
The Trojan Horse... the 1st Pinz used to covertly carry troops into battle .




ATL Pinzgauer XM 718K TUM(HD) 6x6 FFR (aka The Green Grail)
gunipinzmutt
Italy
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:40 am
Location: Italy

Re: Air shock absorbers

Post by gunipinzmutt »

I would preferably keep original system if cost is rasonable, so if new ones (if available) are too expensive I would go for rebuilding original ones if somebody does it. Second choice would be substitute original air shock with compatible ones, always if not too expensive, otherwise I would buy traditional shocks and suitable spring (type/make/model/source???).
Thanks
Pinz: 710 m, 710 ms, 710 k, 712 m fla, 712 k, 716 m, 718 m san, 716 k, 718 rehinbraun
Haflinger: 700, 703
G: 250, 270, 400, 350
Unimog 406
M825, M151 A2, M416
Fiat Panda 141A 4x4
Fresia F18
User avatar
David Dunn
United States of America
Posts: 2274
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 7:08 pm
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Air shock absorbers

Post by David Dunn »

The orginal system is air springs. Unless you have an ex-Swedish 716 that they modified for the extra weight they put them through, your truck will squat after being shut off and the air leaks out to pump back up when it's turned on the next time. Air shocks only control the dampening of the ride according to weight carried.... I have and had vehicles with both types of air systems.
Whereas the 710s have different size springs front and rear, the 716 have the same physical size and the rating is different.
On my Swed 716, they had swapped springs that the truck never squatted in the rear and in the 9+ years I owned it, the air pump only cycled 2 times ( once with 12 AGM batteries in it, and in a parade with 6 people).
The front had entended cup pins and special coupler that extended the pins another 19mm. ( I think they might have swapped springs front to rear, but never took it apart to see, and the springs indentifiers weren't visible.
There is a chart in the Yahoo TD group that list all the springs and rating.
As for the front, they'll take the same shock as a 710/12
.
The Trojan Horse... the 1st Pinz used to covertly carry troops into battle .




ATL Pinzgauer XM 718K TUM(HD) 6x6 FFR (aka The Green Grail)
Tads
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:02 pm
Location: Telford, UK

Re: Air shock absorbers

Post by Tads »

The air springs are supplied by ZF Sachs and are unique to the Pinzgauer so not cheap and not easily rebuilt. The ZF part number should be etched on the damper body. If you're thinking to replace them with standard dampers instead just remember that on the 716 the air pressure is linked to rear brake bias (more pressure - more rear brake force) so once removed you're reducing the total braking effort available when the vehicle is laden....

Tom
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David Dunn
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Re: Air shock absorbers

Post by David Dunn »

Tom,
While I had my P80, there was no indication of a brake proportioning valve, nor any mention of one in the manual I had. I suspect it was an upgrade later years with the laws over there.
Because of the respringing the Sweds did, I never had 'sagging' tail, but had looked for replacement options.
Back when I was looking, I had found them with eyes on both ends, but on a quick search now, I only found these:
http://www.truckspring.com/products/Fir ... _1003.aspx
It all depends on how proud Sachs is of them now, verses adapting another.
But we're on different sides of the pond, and that seems to add quite a bit to have things sent here by row boat. :wink:
.
The Trojan Horse... the 1st Pinz used to covertly carry troops into battle .




ATL Pinzgauer XM 718K TUM(HD) 6x6 FFR (aka The Green Grail)
Tads
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:02 pm
Location: Telford, UK

Re: Air shock absorbers

Post by Tads »

David,

Fair enough - obviously I'm only familiar with P93/5 cylinder models and everything we worked with at Guildford had the air pressure/brake link, which made re-specifying the air spring when the original design went obsolete a bit more complex than it would have otherwise been. On the plus side that was one of the last tasks we did so if someone is prepared to pay the price (it's not the row boat hire that makes them expensive!) you should still be able to get factory approved spares.

Looking at the Steyr parts book that I assume is still on the Yahoo groups site the link is shown on TA198, part 20 (758.1.36.001.2) with the link to the air system illustrated (4 way air connection illustrated directing you to TA167). This is described as "brake power control - 4x4 A2" so possibly pre-P93 vehicles don't have the connection but it would be worth checking on any 4x4 before slinging air springs away.

Tom
gunipinzmutt
Italy
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:40 am
Location: Italy

Re: Air shock absorbers

Post by gunipinzmutt »

My mother tongue is not english but air springs does not seem to me the correct definition as it refers, actually, to springs, whereas Pinz ones are air shock absorbers as they combine air pressure effect to the traditional damping effect. I have an ex-swedish 716K and 2 ex-pakistani 716M of which one has air shock absorbers and the other conventional springs and absorbers. Air shock absorbers are coupled with springs having less turns and different section (decreasing from the middle [20 mm] to the ends [14 mm]) whereas hydraulic shocks are coupled with a spring apparently identical to the front ones, apart the different marking (2 red stripes front and 2 yellow stripes rear). Searching on the web I've found Monroe Max-Air could do the job; I'm trying to sort out the model that is compatibe size wise. Unfortunately they do not seem available here in Italy.
Tom, neither I can identify where the link between air and brakes systems on my 6 cylinder is; I guess the brake proportioning effect was substituted by stability on load effect achieved just with the modulation of air pressure on absorbers.
Pinz: 710 m, 710 ms, 710 k, 712 m fla, 712 k, 716 m, 718 m san, 716 k, 718 rehinbraun
Haflinger: 700, 703
G: 250, 270, 400, 350
Unimog 406
M825, M151 A2, M416
Fiat Panda 141A 4x4
Fresia F18
User avatar
David Dunn
United States of America
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Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 7:08 pm
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Air shock absorbers

Post by David Dunn »

There is a lot liberties taken in "mis" naming a product. Over the years I’ve had shock absorbers on trucks here that use air to adjust the valves for the amount of dampening I desire for the load. Namely the Rancho 9000 series. Not a true air shock, but air adjustable, as an option.

I see the products like the Firestone and Monroe as more of an air spring, as they have a traditional type shock absorber with an air bag incorporated in them. The adding and removing of air raises and lowers the vehicle .

A P38 Range Rover uses air bags and separate shock absorbers much the same way. The air bags carries the vehicle weight and is height adjustable and the shock absorber does the ride dampening. If you add more load to the RR, it automatically adjusts the air bags to level the vehicle. The 716 has a weak spring in the rear to assist. The Swedish 716 had heavier springs install, as they were never really "empty" (and usually overloaded)

It all comes down to semantics.
.
The Trojan Horse... the 1st Pinz used to covertly carry troops into battle .




ATL Pinzgauer XM 718K TUM(HD) 6x6 FFR (aka The Green Grail)
pathfinder700ap
Austria
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:02 pm
Location: Austria

Re: Air shock absorbers

Post by pathfinder700ap »

Gunipinzmutt,

how did you manage to get hold of the ex Pakistani TDs and how did you manage to have them shipped to Europe? Sounds like an interesting story... Could you report a little bit? :)

I have also heard about these vehicles and I do have some historic pictures. Do you know of other vehicles of the same batch?


Regards,
Constantin
gunipinzmutt
Italy
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:40 am
Location: Italy

Re: Air shock absorbers

Post by gunipinzmutt »

I red an ad somewere on the web for three 716M in Pakistan ex Army. Togeter with two friends of mine decided to try to buy them. After negotiation with the seller we reached an agreement on price and on sale condition. As I had to send a cospiquous down payment I intended to travel there to see vehicles bringing the money with me. At the end I trusted the seller and sent the downpayment without going. The balance was due on shipping documents (that took place more than one year larer due to necessity to register vehicles to get the export licence). At the biginning we studied the possibility to load the three in a 40' container but at the end we agreed to load one pinzgauers in a 20' container and two on a 40'. After few hundreds of kilometers of road transfer in Pakistan and thousand across the seas the containers arrived in Venice. A couple of years later (few months ago) I started restoration that is still on progress. Vehicles are very sound, no rust at all, only minor indents on the body and few small parts missing. After the first three I've bought another one, in pieces for spare, that i have imported togheter with an M825 on a 40' container. I've been told from seller that Pakistan army had very few Pinzgauer. Four are in Italy now and, for what I know, in Pakistan one is running with a Toyota engine, one with original one and another is in bad shape and its pictures are on the web.
Pinz: 710 m, 710 ms, 710 k, 712 m fla, 712 k, 716 m, 718 m san, 716 k, 718 rehinbraun
Haflinger: 700, 703
G: 250, 270, 400, 350
Unimog 406
M825, M151 A2, M416
Fiat Panda 141A 4x4
Fresia F18
gunipinzmutt
Italy
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:40 am
Location: Italy

Re: Air shock absorbers

Post by gunipinzmutt »

I'm trying to insert pics of the springs.
Pinz: 710 m, 710 ms, 710 k, 712 m fla, 712 k, 716 m, 718 m san, 716 k, 718 rehinbraun
Haflinger: 700, 703
G: 250, 270, 400, 350
Unimog 406
M825, M151 A2, M416
Fiat Panda 141A 4x4
Fresia F18
gunipinzmutt
Italy
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:40 am
Location: Italy

Re: Air shock absorbers

Post by gunipinzmutt »

Here a pic of springs. Left to right: front, rear original with air shock, rear substitute with traditional Hydraulic shock absorber.
Image
Original air shock
Image
Detail of air shock
Image
It seems air shock can be disassembled in order to change rubber air bag (if supplied or available).
On my searching on the net I found Monroe Max-Air MA817 whose max lenght is compatible. The only issue is that sleeve diameter is not large enough for original M16 studs.
Any idea if similar shocks can do the job in the Pinz?
Pinz: 710 m, 710 ms, 710 k, 712 m fla, 712 k, 716 m, 718 m san, 716 k, 718 rehinbraun
Haflinger: 700, 703
G: 250, 270, 400, 350
Unimog 406
M825, M151 A2, M416
Fiat Panda 141A 4x4
Fresia F18
wrangler0511
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:22 pm
Location: Austria, Vienna

Re: Air shock absorbers

Post by wrangler0511 »

You can send the air shock to Sachs so they can replace the air bag. This only makes sense if the actual shock absorber
is still in good shape. Otherwise it is better to buy a new unit.

Richard
gunipinzmutt
Italy
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:40 am
Location: Italy

Re: Air shock absorbers

Post by gunipinzmutt »

Do you know of any particular Sacks workshop where to send them?
Thanks
Pinz: 710 m, 710 ms, 710 k, 712 m fla, 712 k, 716 m, 718 m san, 716 k, 718 rehinbraun
Haflinger: 700, 703
G: 250, 270, 400, 350
Unimog 406
M825, M151 A2, M416
Fiat Panda 141A 4x4
Fresia F18
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