Tire Wear
Moderator: TechMOGogy
Tire Wear
I have had a continuing problem with my right front tire wearing excessively and cupping on the outside half of the tread. Yes, they are blanced correctly with an adaptor. I have adjusted the toe-in and rotated the tires which has stopped the truck from pulling to the right. Yet, I'm certain I will wear the rotated tire next. Any suggestions? It was suggested to me by a friend that I should ask about a shim kit for the wheel hub but, given the wonders of the portal axle, I was not sure that would work here. - Buzz
"It's as stupid and wonderful as owning a pet elephant."
1974 Pinzgauer 710M
1990 Puch G Wagon 230 GE
1974 Pinzgauer 710M
1990 Puch G Wagon 230 GE
-
lindenengineering
- Posts: 715
- Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:14 pm
- Location: Golden Colorado USA
- Contact:
From what you are describing you have tyre scrub and carcass/wheel hop due to shock absorber problems, geometry or excessive play in a steering joint.
I have to ask how was the wheel alignment set?*****
Is there any play in the Birfield joint swivel pins and or steering ball joints?
Did you check the wheel and tyre for run out? What is the play if any detected at the wheel bearings.
Excessive play will cause scrub and cupping.
A not so easily detected problem might be that of excessive castor created by a worn locating pin where the axle halves are joined. Look for cracking at the locating boss to see if the axle has slipped. A tell tail sign is that the coil road spring is starting to deflect to one side.
**** Unlike alot of "regular vehicles" the Pinz has a tendency to scrub one tyre more than the other when the toe in/out is out of whack. After all the rapid wear of a tyre especially at the shoulder is a sign that the wheel and tyre are sliding laterally as the vehicle goes down the road. Not only is it bad for the tyre but you consume more fuel rubbing it down.
Food for thought
Dennis
Linden Engineering Inc
Big truck chassis & frame Div
I have to ask how was the wheel alignment set?*****
Is there any play in the Birfield joint swivel pins and or steering ball joints?
Did you check the wheel and tyre for run out? What is the play if any detected at the wheel bearings.
Excessive play will cause scrub and cupping.
A not so easily detected problem might be that of excessive castor created by a worn locating pin where the axle halves are joined. Look for cracking at the locating boss to see if the axle has slipped. A tell tail sign is that the coil road spring is starting to deflect to one side.
**** Unlike alot of "regular vehicles" the Pinz has a tendency to scrub one tyre more than the other when the toe in/out is out of whack. After all the rapid wear of a tyre especially at the shoulder is a sign that the wheel and tyre are sliding laterally as the vehicle goes down the road. Not only is it bad for the tyre but you consume more fuel rubbing it down.
Food for thought
Dennis
Linden Engineering Inc
Big truck chassis & frame Div
OOOps no customer bashing now
Tire Wear
The shocks are new and were put on to combat the cupping. I did the alignment myself with lots of measuring and only a little cussing. My local tire dealer gave up trying when it took it in to them to align. At that time, I had lots of pull to the right which my fiddling seemed to have taken out.
I will go back and check the things you suggest, but most likely I have the alignment wrong and need to try again. Thanks for the input. - Buzz
I will go back and check the things you suggest, but most likely I have the alignment wrong and need to try again. Thanks for the input. - Buzz
"It's as stupid and wonderful as owning a pet elephant."
1974 Pinzgauer 710M
1990 Puch G Wagon 230 GE
1974 Pinzgauer 710M
1990 Puch G Wagon 230 GE
-
lindenengineering
- Posts: 715
- Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:14 pm
- Location: Golden Colorado USA
- Contact:
Since you can't do much to a Pinz on the front end other than "toe and go" here are a few tips.
Obviously make sure there is no excessive play in ALL the steering joints and that the tyres are on good condition, No bulges, mis aligned etc. Check the run out on your wheels, anything more than an 1/8th and you will have to do a three position take off and find the mean average.
If you jack the truck up or adjust it you MUST back it up then drive forward to normalize the undercart.
We employ the "as driven method" in our shop, so bring the truck to a gradual stop on a flat surface after you have finished your jacking & checking.
You can employ several methods to check toe in, I prefer tram bars which you can make from some alum square section tubing that are sufficiently wide enough to pass over the tyre just above the lower bulge of the tyre carcass and have some equal accurately made spacer blocks on the bars to touch the rims. Run a tape measure between the tram bars just in front of each tyre face, back and front, the difference is the toe in or toe out.
or
You can run a tape measure from inside the rim at the front and 180 at the rear to get a measure of toe in.
or
This is another dodge we use on big trucks with Trilex three piece rims. Since these wheels are never concentric we can use a couple of pieces of duct tape stuck on the outer tread section of each front tyre. Mark a random spot in the middle of each piece of tape and then stretch a tape measure across the spots. Record and then roll the truck forward so that the tape is now 180 dg at the back and retake the dimension.It should be no more than 3mm or 1/8 th toed in. I prefer to set it from parallel to 1/16th toed in. You will find some tyres with a softer slip angle prefer less than the old Maloyas (1/8th).
Several things to remember, what you adjust on one side do on the other to nomalize the adjustment and after EACH adjustment roll ther truck back then forward to normalize the undercarriage. This ensures accuracy.
I have been doing alignments on big rigs and trailers for more than 40 years off and on and these are tried and true methods that you can use on your Pinz. I learned these methods when I was a snot nosed kid in a shop as an apprentice. Even though today we use a laser for tandem rear axle thrust alignment and trailer repair, I still prefer the old fashioned tram bar for the front axle toe check.
As a footnote if you want to check castor/camber conformity you can use the square section spacer block under the front shock as a take off using a magnetic protractor. That will tell you if its been whacked at some time in the past.
Best of luck
Dennis
Linden Engineering Inc
Big Truck Div
Obviously make sure there is no excessive play in ALL the steering joints and that the tyres are on good condition, No bulges, mis aligned etc. Check the run out on your wheels, anything more than an 1/8th and you will have to do a three position take off and find the mean average.
If you jack the truck up or adjust it you MUST back it up then drive forward to normalize the undercart.
We employ the "as driven method" in our shop, so bring the truck to a gradual stop on a flat surface after you have finished your jacking & checking.
You can employ several methods to check toe in, I prefer tram bars which you can make from some alum square section tubing that are sufficiently wide enough to pass over the tyre just above the lower bulge of the tyre carcass and have some equal accurately made spacer blocks on the bars to touch the rims. Run a tape measure between the tram bars just in front of each tyre face, back and front, the difference is the toe in or toe out.
or
You can run a tape measure from inside the rim at the front and 180 at the rear to get a measure of toe in.
or
This is another dodge we use on big trucks with Trilex three piece rims. Since these wheels are never concentric we can use a couple of pieces of duct tape stuck on the outer tread section of each front tyre. Mark a random spot in the middle of each piece of tape and then stretch a tape measure across the spots. Record and then roll the truck forward so that the tape is now 180 dg at the back and retake the dimension.It should be no more than 3mm or 1/8 th toed in. I prefer to set it from parallel to 1/16th toed in. You will find some tyres with a softer slip angle prefer less than the old Maloyas (1/8th).
Several things to remember, what you adjust on one side do on the other to nomalize the adjustment and after EACH adjustment roll ther truck back then forward to normalize the undercarriage. This ensures accuracy.
I have been doing alignments on big rigs and trailers for more than 40 years off and on and these are tried and true methods that you can use on your Pinz. I learned these methods when I was a snot nosed kid in a shop as an apprentice. Even though today we use a laser for tandem rear axle thrust alignment and trailer repair, I still prefer the old fashioned tram bar for the front axle toe check.
As a footnote if you want to check castor/camber conformity you can use the square section spacer block under the front shock as a take off using a magnetic protractor. That will tell you if its been whacked at some time in the past.
Best of luck
Dennis
Linden Engineering Inc
Big Truck Div
OOOps no customer bashing now