Pinz towing

matthewc66 · Post by **matthewc66** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:19 pm

I was thinking of bringing my Pinz up to Pismo Beach this week and was going to rent a car trailer from U Haul and pull it behind my Dually.

They said no as tires have to be 30 inches or less to work with their straps.

I was thinking of just tieing it down with tie downs but then just left it home.

I met a guy on the beach with a Pinz from the Bay Area. He had a V Bar like the RV's use when they tow a car behind it and said it worked great with the Pinz. He said just put it into neutral and I could tow it behind my dually with all 4 wheels down.

Just wanted advice as I would like to take the Pinz on some farther trips but can't do the long distance drive on the highway with it.

Heed · Post by **Heed** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:16 am

My understanding of this is that "flat-towing" ANY4x4 is a big no-no!

I stand to be enlightened by those on this board who are more mechanically inclined than I am, but whenever I have had to have a tow for my other trucks I insist on a flat-bed tow truck.

Just my .02 (CDN!)

ka · Post by ka » Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:13 am

i'd like to add to this question. i'm wondering if there any difference in drive train temps or wear (or anything else) between towing a pinz at 55 mph and driving it 55 mph.

matthewc66 · Post by **matthewc66** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:03 pm

I had the same question about the drivetrain. If the Pinz tops out at 55mph on a good day what happens when you flat tow it at 70??

Does it grenade it?

I thought it sounded like it might be harmful but couldn't confirm...

Erik712m · Post by **Erik712m** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:08 pm

I thought about doing this when I first bought my Pinz. I changed my mind for the following reasons:

1) Wear and tear on much of the drive train. I typically only drive the Pinz at 55 but it is possible to tow at a much higher speed. Why put the strain on 30+ year old portal axles, etc.

2) A braking system is required (by law) as the Pinz is heavy. Adding a "Brake Buddy" or something similar is probably $700+ and I really don't know how well it would work. Remember, your Pinz brakes might not be well balanced and the speeds you might towing at need good braking.

3) You will need to install trailer lighting. That's the easiest thing on the list

4) You'll need a tow bar of some kind. Note the height difference between your Pinz bumper and the tow vehicle. Not the same height is it?

5) It takes a fairly substantial vehicle to even flat tow the Pinz. That is the most expensive part of the towing equation. If you have the tow vehicle already why not spend the money you're budgeting for flat towing wisely and get a trailer.

I bought a 14K pound two axle equipment trailer that is 20' long and has electric brakes on both axles. It tows a 710 or 712 fine. It will also take care of a Unimog 404. I spent $90 on a very nice proportional brake controller for my 3/4 ton pickup. I carry an extra two trailer wheels in case I blow out both tires on one side. I even have a small winch on the nose of the trailer (2000 lb) that I have doubled up (4000 lb) and easily pulled a full size Blazer with wheels so wide they scraped the inside of the wheel fenders (I haven't needed to drag up the Pinz yet, knock on wood). Trailer was about $2500 with another $200 for two spare tires. Winch was a Harbor Freight special. Another $100 for chains and binder. This was a few years ago, your prices will vary.

I've had to make some very fast stops because of stupid people on the Interstate. I shudder to think of those same stops if I was flat towing my Pinz.

This is an old pic. Pinz still has AT tires rather than Swampers. I also now use chains as they are required by law in FL, well at least one chain.

Russ Wrote not to long ago.

http://real4x4forums.com/PinzgauerBBS/v ... ght=towing

russ · Post by **russ** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:57 pm

One other thing, do NOT tow a Pinz on a dolly with the front two wheels up, not that any one suggested this. This won't work as the Pinz axles do not go straight across, they are off set, i.e. the back two wheels are not in a line, one is in front of the other. This is a problem for towing.

matthewc66 · Post by **matthewc66** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:38 pm

I guess flat towing a Pinz is out of the question.

Being that U Haul says you cant put anything on the trailer with larger than 30 inch tires as their straps are rated at 30 inches do you think I could just get the U Haul trailer and just tie down the Pinz at all 4 corners and be okay?

MarkPinz · Post by **MarkPinz** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:54 pm

Have had better luck renting trailers from equipment yards. The trailer I'm normally using is for heavier equipment with bigger diameter tires (great for offroad as well). It is probably double the fee of Uhaul though.

Last trip to Pismo was pretty scary dodging all the quads

MarkPinz · Post by **MarkPinz** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:59 pm

Check this link out it has photos of the proper tie down points (scroll to bottom): http://real4x4forums.com/PinzgauerBBS/v ... hlight=tie

Pinz Enthusiast · Post by **Pinz Enthusiast** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:19 pm

Mathew,

As far as the U-Haul trailer is conserned it won't work tried it already, (712m anyway) U-Haul car trailers arent heavy enough, and for flat towing thats a no no for the pinz, Heed, Flat towing 4x4's is ok as long as it's not a pinz, I tow my 2003 Land Rover Discovery SE behind my motorhome all the time, just back from a 2400 mile trip and hardley knew the thing was there unless I looked in the backup monitor, (for land rovers you must put the transfer case in neutral and the transmission in park, or it will cost you almost $10,000.00 I know), Erik712m, I have the brake buddy for the land rover and the way it's set up it would never work in the pinz anyway as it needs to push aginst the seat cusion while setting on the floor, and the seat is way to high off the floor, I also agree you need a trailer for towing, small price to pay $2000.00 or so should do it....lol.

Oh yeah Mathew find a local Big Tex dealer I rented a car ahuler from them a few times cost like$60.00 a day or like Markpinz said try an equipment rental place...

Here is a pic of my truck on my trailer.

M Wehrman · Post by **M Wehrman** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:35 pm

As an added benefit,when you tow a pinz most likely your tow vehicle is a more comfy ride!

Personally I like the added comforts of the power accessories and I arrive much less exhausted. The Pinz noise is quite an energy drainer(sp) unless you go with noise cancelling headphones.....With that in mind,watch for the rpm light of death! Easy to "overlook" while bopping to your fav tunes...
Mark

M Wehrman · Post by **M Wehrman** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:39 pm

Geez Eric,not much clearance with that rig

VERY nice way to travel!
Paint that bus green!!! Clashes with the Pinz!
Mark

pinztrek · Post by **pinztrek** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:36 pm

matthewc66 wrote:I guess flat towing a Pinz is out of the question.

This is absolutely not the case. Pinz's are flat towed extensively here in the US and WW. I'm aware of multiple pinz's towed routinely being RV's and other vehicles. The factory has provided flat towing gear as well. (Actually developed by Herbert Krois)

I've towed mine on 1000-2000 mile trips on a 6000# car hauler as well as flat towing, and feel that flat towing is far superior for all aspects except maybe tire wear.

The factory (herbert's) design properly spreads the load starting with the nose ring, and ties into the front body mounts, all as a rigid structure.

Drivetrain wear is minimal, as the gears are essentially unloaded. Far less stress/wear than driving. Virtually zero torque. You will not want to drive 80-90, but the seals are spec'd for rotational speeds above that assuming you have your hub oil level right.

Don't know where this idea that pinz factory spec is 55mph max.... Official top speed is 110kph for the 710 which is 68mph. Even the swiss army spec'd them for 100kph minimum top speed.

So towing at 60mph/100kph is a piece of cake, and no risk to the pinz.

I find braking with the flat towed pinz far more stable than the car hauler with electric brakes. the trailer weighs half again as much as the pinz, so for my tow vehicle (dodge Ram with cummins) it's no issue at all to stop with the pinz flat towing. Less sway, etc.

Key things you need to do:
- tranny in Neutral
- xfer case in neutral
- Steering wheel unlocked, let it turn (and it will)
- Magnetic trailer lights, Northern Tool, etc. They sit upside down in the license plate area on the rear. Or just inside the rear rollbar if canvas is up.
- Proper pintle hitch on the tow vehicle. The factory design is intended to allow pinz to pull pinz, and both civilian & military pinz's have been delivered this way, with vehicles swapped mid-trip.
- You cannot just attach tow bar to the bumperette's!!!!! The factory setup ties the nose ring to the body mounts making a three sided triangle. Very strong.

Anyone at the recent FL treffen saw the factory flat tow setup on mine. I pulled the bar off to free up my front tow point. Take me 15 minutes to connect and drive away. Once you flat tow one with a factory towbar you will not want to trailer again.

If you do decide to trailer, balance is a key issue to avoid swap. You'll want to tie down at the body mounts to avoid having the pinz springs create high CG sway.

Hope this helps!

have fun,

Alan

MarkPinz · Post by **MarkPinz** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:03 pm

Any photos or link for the factory set up Alan? Not having to rent or store a trailer sounds great to me. I do have a tow hitch extension on my truck when using my camper though?

Thanks

Erik712m · Post by **Erik712m** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:22 pm

Anyone at the recent FL treffen saw the factory flat tow setup on mine. I pulled the bar off to free up my front tow point. Take me 15 minutes to connect and drive away. Once you flat tow one with a factory towbar you will not want to trailer again.

Next you will be telling us Russ got your pinz stuck and you didn't.

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