Are the old weber and NDIX carbs interchangeable?

Mechanical issues? Check here.

Moderator: TechMOGogy

Post Reply
User avatar
audiocontr
Posts: 1780
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 1:30 pm
Location: Detroit Motor City

Are the old weber and NDIX carbs interchangeable?

Post by audiocontr » Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:06 pm

I'm sick of messing with the weber carb. Can't seem to get the slightest throttle pop corrected. I'd love to swap over to a NDIX, where I'm at least familiar.
1973 712m
(2) 1968 Haflingers 1 For Sale
1978 GMC Palm Beach
1979 Mini Ranger For Sale
1986 Corvette For Sale
2001 F250 Diesel and trailer
Company Cars
2017 MKT
2018 F-150

The true Pinzgauer´s
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 10:31 am
Location: Nürnberg, Germany

Re: Are the old weber and NDIX carbs interchangeable?

Post by The true Pinzgauer´s » Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:18 pm

there are two main different kind of intake manifold, one with zwo stud´s fixing for the Weber Carburator and 4 stud´s fixing for Zenith NDIX Carburator. there are undergroup versions of each main type ( like underpressure connect, with/ without throttle(s) ...)

User avatar
audiocontr
Posts: 1780
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 1:30 pm
Location: Detroit Motor City

Re: Are the old weber and NDIX carbs interchangeable?

Post by audiocontr » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:57 pm

Thank you.

Wouldn't happen to know much about the weber carbs would you? Any advice for slight throttle popping?
1973 712m
(2) 1968 Haflingers 1 For Sale
1978 GMC Palm Beach
1979 Mini Ranger For Sale
1986 Corvette For Sale
2001 F250 Diesel and trailer
Company Cars
2017 MKT
2018 F-150

The true Pinzgauer´s
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 10:31 am
Location: Nürnberg, Germany

Re: Are the old weber and NDIX carbs interchangeable?

Post by The true Pinzgauer´s » Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:01 pm

If all turning studs and levers (from front to rear) are greased (running free), didn´t worn out bushes and stud´s, all slighting gommets at chassis are mount for push-rod; it only can be on the Carburator. At it self the throttle-shaft often twisting and buckle. also probs at both ends of throttle shaft ones the conect to the pump rod (often disformed+damaged) on the otherside the holes in between-levers and the slighting bush worn out and be stucked. The push rod to carburator top and start flat it self also twist and buckle. the Weber Cab is very very prone to fault because all surfaces have to be seal, all moving parts needs thighting play, the float gauge is a book of it´s own and Screws never pull to maximum torque (all parts will be bend) This Cab needs hand of an surgeons...

Czechsix
United States of America
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:38 pm

Re: Are the old weber and NDIX carbs interchangeable?

Post by Czechsix » Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:39 pm

audiocontr wrote:Thank you.

Wouldn't happen to know much about the weber carbs would you? Any advice for slight throttle popping?

What do you mean by throttle popping? I know about the throttle off idle bog, deceleration popping is common, crummy accelerator pumps, air leaks around the butterfly shaft, flooded floats, busted off needles...but what's throttle popping?
1963 Swiss 700AP, with Black Diamond ATV tires, and a few other mods. "Always under construction".

User avatar
audiocontr
Posts: 1780
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 1:30 pm
Location: Detroit Motor City

Re: Are the old weber and NDIX carbs interchangeable?

Post by audiocontr » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:25 am

i would call it a strong stutter when just tipping into the accelerator pedal. It pops, bogs, etc... again, this is at the slightest touch of the throttle. Pushing beyond is perfectly fine.

Float adjustment seemed to help a little
1973 712m
(2) 1968 Haflingers 1 For Sale
1978 GMC Palm Beach
1979 Mini Ranger For Sale
1986 Corvette For Sale
2001 F250 Diesel and trailer
Company Cars
2017 MKT
2018 F-150

Czechsix
United States of America
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:38 pm

Re: Are the old weber and NDIX carbs interchangeable?

Post by Czechsix » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:30 am

Ah, got it. Sounds like a variation on the good old off idle bog. Also see that in 'mogs, VW's.

Have you checked for air leaks? Accelerator pump working ok? Set idle speed and adjustments?

Yet something else might be to check your distributor advance mechanism, make sure it's functioning properly - lubricated, no binding, etc. If it's binding somehow, until the RPM's get higher and the mechanism suddenly releases, that could cause a bog also......

You could always do the old trick of just running a faster idle speed, which is what I usually do. I still haven't bothered to really R&R a carb. I've got a spare one that I'll eventually drill out the throttle shaft hole, install a bushing, and ream to a good fit. That's the main issue I've got on one of the old carbs, just decades of wear.

If Jim Molloy is reading this - Jim, I know you swapped from the Weber to the Zenith on some of your vehicles, did you see any improvement in performance off idle and in general?
1963 Swiss 700AP, with Black Diamond ATV tires, and a few other mods. "Always under construction".

Heinkeljb
Great Britain
Posts: 352
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:09 pm
Location: Lewes,Southern England

Re: Are the old weber and NDIX carbs interchangeable?

Post by Heinkeljb » Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:37 pm

Check your Carb for air leaks.
Get one of those plant misting spray guns. Fill it with water and give the Carb a good misting whilst running it at idle and just above idle. If it stutters because of the misting, then you have a air leak as the water mist is getting in and disrupting the petrol /air mixture.

Once you know that is what the problem is, you can be a bit more selective with your misting and hopefully discover where the air leak(s) are.

John

Jim Molloy
United States of America
Posts: 211
Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 2:16 pm
Location: Sheridan, Oregon
Contact:

Re: Are the old weber and NDIX carbs interchangeable?

Post by Jim Molloy » Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:42 am

I have found a well-functioning Weber and a well functioning Zenith NDIX provide very similar results. The primary weakness we have seen in the Weber is leaking floats. With the Zenith, it is worn throttle body shafts causing air leaks. Some Zeniths, especially on the Unimog 404, seem to get a bit "weepy" at times as well. Replacement parts for the Zenith are far more readily available.

For me, it also comes down to familiarity. The Zenith-Pallas 32NDIX has been very successfully used on so many different vehicles. Starting with the Porsche 356, it has seen service on the Unimog 404 series trucks, the DKW/Auto Union MUNGA, Pinzgauers, Haflingers, Borgwards, BMWs, Panhards and countless VW on road and off road vehicles. I am so please with this carburetor, I am working to replace the aftermarket Weber 44IDF carbs on our 1981 air-cooled Vanagon Westfalia and the side draft Zenith-Stromberg 175CD carbs on our Volvo TGB11 with the NDIX. It has been called the best off road carburetor ever built by quite a few authors in the past. Who knows? with a bit of prodding from an interested public. the NDIX could be the next retro carburetor that EMPI chooses to reproduce.

Hope this helps.
Take care.

Jim Molloy
Waldersee Farm
http://www.northwestmogfest.com

Tjerk
South Africa
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:48 am

Re: Are the old weber and NDIX carbs interchangeable?

Post by Tjerk » Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:10 am

Haflinger carburettor wanted!
My Haflinger that has a missing carburettor has a four stud manifold - is this for a Zenith 32NDIX?
Does anyone have one for sale?
Please PM
Tjerk

Heinkeljb
Great Britain
Posts: 352
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:09 pm
Location: Lewes,Southern England

Re: Are the old weber and NDIX carbs interchangeable?

Post by Heinkeljb » Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:26 pm

Four stud manifold is for a Zenith NDIX 32 Carb. Same carb can be found fitted to various vehicles, MOG's, Porsche and several other I can't remember at the moment.
The major difference will be in the size of the jets and the replaceable venturi, if you get one from a different vehicle.

Obviously, you could probably buy a correct Carb from one of he suppliers in Europe, but it would cost a lot!

John

Jim Molloy
United States of America
Posts: 211
Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 2:16 pm
Location: Sheridan, Oregon
Contact:

Re: Are the old weber and NDIX carbs interchangeable?

Post by Jim Molloy » Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:58 pm

Tjerk,
Tell us more about the history your SA Haflinger.

Now to your lack of carburetor issue. As John pointed out, the four bolt manifold indicates the Zenith-Pallas 32NDIX carburetor. A quick search of eBay reveals many used carbs from the early Porsche 356 series cars. These were twin carb set-ups and there was no provision for a choke (actually enrichment) as used on the Haflinger, Pinzgauer, Unimog 404 and AutoUnion/DKW Munga. One could buy a Porsche carb and replace the original block off plate and gasket with an enrichment fixture and gasket.

Do you still have the original air intake oil bath air cleaner, the hose that attaches to the dry element air cleaner fixture and that fixture that affixes to the top of the carburetor?

By the way, were in SA are you located?

Take care.

Jim Molloy
Waldersee Farm
Sheridan, Oregon
http://www.northwestmogfest.com

pinzi
Belgium
Posts: 93
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2008 4:23 am
Location: belgium

Re: Are the old weber and NDIX carbs interchangeable?

Post by pinzi » Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:15 am

Well...the 32Ndix carbs look the same but they are not....meaning That you just can t put one pinz carb or mog 404 one on a haff, even when you change the jets, they are different and will not work. This is why they have different numbers stampt on them.....the pinz has PU05 the haff PU01 or PU06 ....i have know a guy who did haflingers in Germany well over 30 years and he tried to mix them, said That it dousnt work...they are different..i have never tried it thow :roll:
off-road until i die

User avatar
TechMOGogy
Canada
Posts: 2725
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:39 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Are the old weber and NDIX carbs interchangeable?

Post by TechMOGogy » Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:37 pm

I may have a Haflinger one but need to check - it would need rebuilding.
I purchased a pile of them in a bulk purchase a while back
72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 94 350GDT | 96 350GDT Worker

User avatar
Garrycol
Australia
Posts: 364
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:49 am
Location: Canberra Australia

Re: Are the old weber and NDIX carbs interchangeable?

Post by Garrycol » Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:32 pm

My Haflinger has a Mog NDIX carb on it but has a Haflinger jet block in it.

My engine originally had a Solex 34PBI on which did run ok but was problematic from time to time so I decided to convert to a correct NDIX . I bought a Mog carb and bought a second hand dismantled jet block from Haflinger Technik.

See my thread on this here viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8423

The main issue I had, was that the floats are plastic and each float is in two halves that are glued together. I had the rebuilt carb serviced but this does not include new floats and two days after use, the glue in the floats gave way and the floats no longer floated. I was able to glue them back together but was not a great solution - thankfully Jim LaGuardia was able to help me and sell me a brand new set at a great price.

My Haflinger is registered on the road and is used on a very regular basis and the carb works fine. The only issue I have is in our extreme 40c summers where the carb heat system where exhaust provides carb is heat causes fuel in the carb to vapourise when idling - I tried to get around this by putting an extra insulation block between the manifold and carb and this has helped but it still happens.

I was going to put blanks on the carb heater tube at the exhaust manifold end but my mechanic advised against it as we have -6 mornings in winter here. When the inlet manifold is off next I will think about putting a moveable flap in the system so that it gets heat in winter but blocked in summer.

So I can confirm a rejetted Mog works fine but needs modification. Check your operating altitude when selecting jets - I have to operate from sea level to 1500m with everyday I am at 650m and the jets listed in the link work fine.

garry
1973 Haflinger AP700
1977 Landrover FC 101
2007 Range Rover Sport TDV6
1971 Jaguar Series 3 E-Type Conv
1957 Landrover 88" Station Wagon
1957 Landrover 88"

Post Reply