more oil dripping than i would like

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audiocontr
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more oil dripping than i would like

Post by audiocontr » Mon May 08, 2017 8:09 am

What are the points of potential oil leaks on the bottom of the engine? I'm seeing more drips of oil than i would like falling from the rear, but i cannot find the source of the oil leak anywhere but in the bottom pan below the valve covers. As far as i can see, the valve cover gaskets were replaced by the previous owner, and are tight. The oil filler tube vent hose appears aged, and it may be the point of leaking, but there appears more oil than a seeping hose would create.

Any suggestions on what to look for?
1973 712m
(2) 1968 Haflingers 1 For Sale
1978 GMC Palm Beach
1979 Mini Ranger For Sale
1986 Corvette For Sale
2001 F250 Diesel and trailer
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TechMOGogy
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Re: more oil dripping than i would like

Post by TechMOGogy » Mon May 08, 2017 9:31 am

Check the valve cover return pipe seal (501.2.01.016.1) and the 2 push rod seals (501.2.04.016.1) - probably leaking
5-8-2017 10-26-45 AM.jpg
5-8-2017 10-26-45 AM.jpg (61.24 KiB) Viewed 1127 times
72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 96 350GDT Worker

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rmel
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Re: more oil dripping than i would like

Post by rmel » Mon May 08, 2017 10:20 am

Can you be a wee bit more specific on where you are seeing the leak(s)?

There are numerous places leaks can develop and I can tell you from experience,
unless they are gushers they are not as necessarily easy to find as one might think.
Send a PIX of the location for starters. Can you quantify how much oil is leaking/mile
driven, do you see leaking when the engine is idle or only leaks when driving? If it's
hard to nail the location, try cleaning all surfaces thoroughly -- then see if the leak is
more apparent.

If you still can't isolate the leak then I would start by removing the top tin and inspecting
the push rod housings and seals, #3 and #4 are hard to see W/O removing the back tin
but you can work around that with a decent Endoscope -- which BTW will enhance seeing
Oil streaks.

There is also a thread here viewtopic.php?f=12&t=10669
on how to look for leaks associated with the oil return tube O-ring and it's replacement.

The other source of leaks is the Cylinder to block, which is sealed with a lacquer sealant at
the factory. When inspecting from the top side also look for debris build up near the cylinder fins,
that's a telltale side of oil leaks.

If all else fails in isolating the leak there is is dye tracers with UV light which can help isolating
a leak, but for that to work you need to clean as much as you can otherwise you end up with
a lot of false positives.
Puller: 71' 710K 2.7L EFI aka Mozo
Follower: Sankey MK 3, 3/4 Tonne
Rescue Pinz: 73' 712M

Driver: Ron // KO0Q

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audiocontr
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Re: more oil dripping than i would like

Post by audiocontr » Mon May 08, 2017 5:19 pm

rmel wrote:Can you be a wee bit more specific on where you are seeing the leak(s)?

There are numerous places leaks can develop and I can tell you from experience,
unless they are gushers they are not as necessarily easy to find as one might think.
Send a PIX of the location for starters. Can you quantify how much oil is leaking/mile
driven, do you see leaking when the engine is idle or only leaks when driving? If it's
hard to nail the location, try cleaning all surfaces thoroughly -- then see if the leak is
more apparent.

If you still can't isolate the leak then I would start by removing the top tin and inspecting
the push rod housings and seals, #3 and #4 are hard to see W/O removing the back tin
but you can work around that with a decent Endoscope -- which BTW will enhance seeing
Oil streaks.

There is also a thread here viewtopic.php?f=12&t=10669
on how to look for leaks associated with the oil return tube O-ring and it's replacement.

The other source of leaks is the Cylinder to block, which is sealed with a lacquer sealant at
the factory. When inspecting from the top side also look for debris build up near the cylinder fins,
that's a telltale side of oil leaks.

If all else fails in isolating the leak there is is dye tracers with UV light which can help isolating
a leak, but for that to work you need to clean as much as you can otherwise you end up with
a lot of false positives.
No matter how hard I look, I can't find the third and fourth cylinders. :lol:
1973 712m
(2) 1968 Haflingers 1 For Sale
1978 GMC Palm Beach
1979 Mini Ranger For Sale
1986 Corvette For Sale
2001 F250 Diesel and trailer
Company Cars
2019 Expedition
2019 F-150

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audiocontr
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Location: Detroit Motor City

Re: more oil dripping than i would like

Post by audiocontr » Mon May 08, 2017 5:21 pm

TechMOGogy wrote:Check the valve cover return pipe seal (501.2.01.016.1) and the 2 push rod seals (501.2.04.016.1) - probably leaking
5-8-2017 10-26-45 AM.jpg
Difficult replacement? Does engine need to come out?
1973 712m
(2) 1968 Haflingers 1 For Sale
1978 GMC Palm Beach
1979 Mini Ranger For Sale
1986 Corvette For Sale
2001 F250 Diesel and trailer
Company Cars
2019 Expedition
2019 F-150

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TechMOGogy
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Re: more oil dripping than i would like

Post by TechMOGogy » Mon May 08, 2017 5:38 pm

audiocontr wrote:
TechMOGogy wrote:Check the valve cover return pipe seal (501.2.01.016.1) and the 2 push rod seals (501.2.04.016.1) - probably leaking
5-8-2017 10-26-45 AM.jpg
Difficult replacement? Does engine need to come out?
If it's the valve cover return - no
If the push rod seals - yes, unless someone else has a way but would be too tight!
72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 96 350GDT Worker

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rmel
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Re: more oil dripping than i would like

Post by rmel » Mon May 08, 2017 5:51 pm

No, you do not have to pull the engine out, it can be serviced in place.

It's not hard per se, but there are numerous techniques involved to
re-seal properly. And if you are torn down with all jugs out, you then
want to think about the condition of the rings and cylinder wear.
IMHO you want to do everything you can to isolate the leak(s) first.
It is more patience than anything else and you may get lucky.

Just how bad is it?
Puller: 71' 710K 2.7L EFI aka Mozo
Follower: Sankey MK 3, 3/4 Tonne
Rescue Pinz: 73' 712M

Driver: Ron // KO0Q

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Garrycol
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Re: more oil dripping than i would like

Post by Garrycol » Mon May 08, 2017 8:42 pm

As mentioned the push rod seals where they come out of the block - engine out but only because the bodywork prevents moving the barrels/heads far enough out of the way. The thick rubber seals will normally be split so you can see if they are damaged.

Also as mentioned the oil return from the rocker covers - same sort of seals as the push rod seals - same issue, same check - can be replaced but removing the rocker covers. Check the seals of the return pipe on the rocker cover - as well as the rocker cover gaskets.

Other places to look - oil filter area. The round sump plate gasket. The bell housing drain hole - oil will drip if there is a leak form the back of the engine or front of the gearbox. The other place to look is from the gearbox in particular the rear swing arm boots - if they leak the oil flows back under the engine.

So a good clean all round (wipe and degreaser) - close inspection of the rubber seals and when all dry white paper under the engine on the floor - run the engine until warm and you should be able to see if the leaks are coming from the engine. If no leaks - try a drive and see if they are actually coming from the gearbox/diff/swing arm area.

Yep - oil leaks are a pain.

garry
1973 Haflinger AP700
1977 Landrover FC 101
2007 Range Rover Sport TDV6
1971 Jaguar Series 3 E-Type Conv
1957 Landrover 88" Station Wagon
1957 Landrover 88"

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rmel
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Re: more oil dripping than i would like

Post by rmel » Mon May 08, 2017 9:19 pm

As mentioned the push rod seals where they come out of the block - engine out but only because the bodywork prevents moving the barrels/heads far enough out of the way. The thick rubber seals will normally be split so you can see if they are damaged.
Well now I finally got the point on "can't find #3 and #4", just noticed this is haf-e thread :oops:

Well for a Pinz it's all done with W/O a motor pull. Same story on leaks being a PITA to isolate though :wink:
Puller: 71' 710K 2.7L EFI aka Mozo
Follower: Sankey MK 3, 3/4 Tonne
Rescue Pinz: 73' 712M

Driver: Ron // KO0Q

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Garrycol
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Location: Canberra Australia

Re: more oil dripping than i would like

Post by Garrycol » Mon May 08, 2017 10:55 pm

Yes but we learnt how do do it in a Pinz 8)
1973 Haflinger AP700
1977 Landrover FC 101
2007 Range Rover Sport TDV6
1971 Jaguar Series 3 E-Type Conv
1957 Landrover 88" Station Wagon
1957 Landrover 88"

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audiocontr
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Re: more oil dripping than i would like

Post by audiocontr » Tue May 09, 2017 5:27 am

I've not pulled a halffie engine. Might be a fun weekend project!
1973 712m
(2) 1968 Haflingers 1 For Sale
1978 GMC Palm Beach
1979 Mini Ranger For Sale
1986 Corvette For Sale
2001 F250 Diesel and trailer
Company Cars
2019 Expedition
2019 F-150

User avatar
Garrycol
Australia
Posts: 390
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:49 am
Location: Canberra Australia

Re: more oil dripping than i would like

Post by Garrycol » Tue May 09, 2017 7:50 am

Only do it if you really feel you need to - like all things there is more to it than it seems - all the tin work and other bits and pieces can be a pain to do.

I have had mine in and out twice and I really would prefer not to do it again.
1973 Haflinger AP700
1977 Landrover FC 101
2007 Range Rover Sport TDV6
1971 Jaguar Series 3 E-Type Conv
1957 Landrover 88" Station Wagon
1957 Landrover 88"

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audiocontr
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Location: Detroit Motor City

Re: more oil dripping than i would like

Post by audiocontr » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:55 am

valve cover gasket on driver side.

Checked the donut seals and they were all in great shape.

Ya know what bothers me... when those who you buy the truck from give you misinformation. The PO stated he had the valve covers replaced. Not a chance! They are old, brittle and leaking.

Any issue if i make the gaskets?
1973 712m
(2) 1968 Haflingers 1 For Sale
1978 GMC Palm Beach
1979 Mini Ranger For Sale
1986 Corvette For Sale
2001 F250 Diesel and trailer
Company Cars
2019 Expedition
2019 F-150

User avatar
audiocontr
United States of America
Posts: 1827
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 1:30 pm
Location: Detroit Motor City

Re: more oil dripping than i would like

Post by audiocontr » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:15 am

Made my own gasket :lol: Workin well in the limited time i let it idle and warm up. Looks like i will tackle the passenger side next.

I always thought the tins were black on military haffies... nope... just oil covered
1973 712m
(2) 1968 Haflingers 1 For Sale
1978 GMC Palm Beach
1979 Mini Ranger For Sale
1986 Corvette For Sale
2001 F250 Diesel and trailer
Company Cars
2019 Expedition
2019 F-150

User avatar
Garrycol
Australia
Posts: 390
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:49 am
Location: Canberra Australia

Re: more oil dripping than i would like

Post by Garrycol » Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:28 pm

The trick with the rocker cover gaskets is to glue one side - either to the rocker cover or to the head - if not they will move around and you will often tighen them up in the wrong position and leak. I also found the cork gaskets are not good as when the cover is torqued up the cork gets squeezed out causing leaks - modern gasket card works well.
1973 Haflinger AP700
1977 Landrover FC 101
2007 Range Rover Sport TDV6
1971 Jaguar Series 3 E-Type Conv
1957 Landrover 88" Station Wagon
1957 Landrover 88"

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