Wheel Flange/Hub Gear Casing - help needed

Mechanical issues? Check here.

Moderator: TechMOGogy

User avatar
TechMOGogy
Canada
Posts: 2798
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:39 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Wheel Flange/Hub Gear Casing - help needed

Post by TechMOGogy » Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:45 am

I removed my hub gear casings and noticed most of them had some play.
The wheel flange moved in and out about 2mm - is this normal?

And the bigger issue is that on some the wheel flange is flapping around like flag in the wind - see crappy cell video!
I assume this is not normal and it would be the roller bearing??
https://youtu.be/rGOLQs4NcX0

Thanks,
Dan
72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 96 350GDT Worker

User avatar
Jim LaGuardia
Posts: 1679
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 3:42 pm
Location: San Bernardino Ca
Contact:

Re: Wheel Flange/Hub Gear Casing - help needed

Post by Jim LaGuardia » Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:32 pm

Tapered bearings :!: Do not mix up the spacer shims :shock:
Cheers, Jim LaGuardia
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v510/Goatwerks/
"Arch Magus of Machines."

User avatar
TechMOGogy
Canada
Posts: 2798
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:39 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Wheel Flange/Hub Gear Casing - help needed

Post by TechMOGogy » Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:54 pm

ok
So what I figured #33 correct?
Where are the spacer shims?
What else should I replace while I am doing this :mrgreen:
Thx
72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 96 350GDT Worker

Heinkeljb
Great Britain
Posts: 354
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:09 pm
Location: Lewes,Southern England

Re: Wheel Flange/Hub Gear Casing - help needed

Post by Heinkeljb » Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:30 pm

The oil seals obviously, along with the "O" ring and the collar the oil seal rides on. To get the collar off, apply heat!
New bearings if you can afford them.

New hub gears if you have low speed gears in there.... Actually, general driving speeds are not that much different between the slowest Haf and the fastest Haf off road, On road there is supposedly 17mph difference but with traffic the faster vehicle won't get anywhere much quicker than the slower one - only makes a difference on the open road.

Remember - lots of that play is controlled by the shims that you put under the square panel that is held on with 4 nuts and studs.

John

User avatar
Jim LaGuardia
Posts: 1679
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 3:42 pm
Location: San Bernardino Ca
Contact:

Re: Wheel Flange/Hub Gear Casing - help needed

Post by Jim LaGuardia » Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:40 pm

Just replace the O ring behind the shim and bearings / seals in each hub 1 at a time so no parts get mixed. All shimming should stay the same 99.9% of the time. Always use a gasket on backing plate, it is part of shim calculation.
As always use Permatex Aviation sealant on the backing plate side of the gasket.
Cheers, Jim LaGuardia
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v510/Goatwerks/
"Arch Magus of Machines."

User avatar
TechMOGogy
Canada
Posts: 2798
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:39 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Wheel Flange/Hub Gear Casing - help needed

Post by TechMOGogy » Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:51 pm

Thanks all - going through the manual and your posts and I have it.
Based on the play I will need new bearings on at least 2 of them (1 front and 1 rear)
Ah - the fun never ends :!:
72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 96 350GDT Worker

User avatar
TechMOGogy
Canada
Posts: 2798
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:39 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Wheel Flange/Hub Gear Casing - help needed

Post by TechMOGogy » Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:54 am

Ok - was able to get into this a bit further but have some further questions
I am not a mechanic so please excuse my ignorant questions!
1.
How do I pull the top bearing, then gear and then the lower bearing off to then get the wheel flange out??
Best way to then reinstall (do I need a press?)
Bearing_Gears.JPG
Bearing_Gears.JPG (104.38 KiB) Viewed 2172 times
2. How do you remove the Upper and Lower swivel pins - I can't get the lower castle nut to budge due to tight space plus I still don't see how it will come apart if I do get that lower nut off? Looks like the upper pin will still be holding it and not enough room??

EDIT: reading over at thehaflinger.com and John gave a great step x step and I figured out the top pin
"Used a spark plug socket and 8mm long threaded bolt with a 13mm nut run up it as a puller to remove the top swivel pin"
Guess I just have to fight the bottom castle nut now!
Front Drive Hub.JPG
Front Drive Hub.JPG (107.25 KiB) Viewed 2172 times
Thats it for now :?
Thanks,
Dan
72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 96 350GDT Worker

Heinkeljb
Great Britain
Posts: 354
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:09 pm
Location: Lewes,Southern England

Re: Wheel Flange/Hub Gear Casing - help needed

Post by Heinkeljb » Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:40 pm

Dan,

Having taken mine apart I can give you the following help:- Not necessarily the correct way to take the bits apart but it worked for me using relatively few special tools.

The hub bearing.

Either put the studs which hold the rim on in a vice to hold the flange still, or put a long breaker bar / tyre lever through two stud so you can prevent the flange from turning.
Now remove the remains of that split pin.
Remove flange from vice.
Put two pieces of 4x4 on either side of the aluminium casting with the bearing pointing upwards.
Hopefully you have a Hot air gun - I would not use a blow torch unless you are going to replace the bearing, in which case it doesn't matter if you heat it = Get the bearing hot,
Now using a soft "copper headed" hammer you can tap the shaft down through the bearing and everything comes apart.

If you want to do it the correct way, you need to use a two or three legged puller to hook under the bearing and then wind the centre bolt down which will "pull" the bearing off.

Installation is similar in that you heat the bearing and then use a suitable sized piece of tubing that fits the centre ring of the bearing and long enough to clear the shaft in the middle. Tap the tubing to tap the bearing down on to the shaft.

As for the swivel pins, now you are talking possibly having to buy a couple of "special" tools just for this job! The top swivel pin need to be pulled out - it should have a 7 or 8mm threaded hole down the centre. Clean it right down to the bottom!! You need to get as much thread in there as possible for the next task, pulling it out!

Remove "cotter pin" the strange wedge and threaded stud that holds the top swivel pin inplace - these can be a real pain to remove and most likely will need to be replaced because you have either bent it or wrecked the thread!

You need a length of threaded bar - either 7 or 8mm depending on what you found as above.
Next you need a piece tubing with a bore suitable (preferably thick walled) for the swivel pin to fin inside. Long enough for the swivel pin to end up all the way inside i.e. about 10cm long
A thick washer
3 nuts that fit you threaded bar.

So you wind the threaded bar into the swivel pin, you slide the tube down the threaded bar making sure the swivel pin can be drawn up the middle. You put the thick washer on the threaded bar so it rests on top of the tube. You wind 1 nut down to the washer. You wind 2 nuts on to the threaded bar and lock them together. These will then provide a method of stopping the threaded bar from turning.

Now start to tighten the lowest nut down to wards the washer, holding the two top nuts to stop the bar from turning.

Like the "cotter pin" the swivel pins can be pigs to remove, :evil: particularly if they haven't be changed in a long a time as they develop a "lip" which catches as you attempt to remove them. Applying heat from a hot air gun to the casting around the top swivel pin will help.

Your next "special tool" is to buy a suitable sized open end / ring spanner for the bottom swivel pin nut - you then have to attack it with either an angle grinder or a bench grind and take off just enough metal to allow you to fit it between the universal joint and the top of the thread of the bottom swivel pin.

Remove the split pin.
Remove the two nuts and bolts which hold the bottom cap in place - BE CAREFUL NOT to lose the ball bearing and the half cup and shim which are in there!
Now there are two flats on the bottom of the lower swivel pin which will be exposed when you take off the bottom cap.
So an open ended spanner on the two flats, your "special" altered ring spanner on the nut on the top and you can undo the nut - probably one flange at a time, but atleast you can undo it....

Section two of this marathon - putting it back together!

I'll leave that till you get to that point :D

John

User avatar
TechMOGogy
Canada
Posts: 2798
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:39 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Wheel Flange/Hub Gear Casing - help needed

Post by TechMOGogy » Fri Sep 18, 2015 8:27 pm

You would think living in Canada I could find either metric threaded rod or metric bolts longer than 70 mm!
Stupid - went to 3 different stores - nothin'
Go figure!

Thanks for the great write up both here and over at thehaflinger.com
Will keep you posted
72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 96 350GDT Worker

User avatar
Garrycol
Australia
Posts: 387
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:49 am
Location: Canberra Australia

Re: Wheel Flange/Hub Gear Casing - help needed

Post by Garrycol » Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:09 pm

It is just as bad here - Johns write up is very good but as you go through the process you find it very intuitive but with some instructions to help you will feel a lot more comfortable doing it.

I have had my hubs apart twice in the past two years and with practice it does become easier. But I do have the camera handy and take lots of pics to help with the reassembly process.

Garry
1973 Haflinger AP700
1977 Landrover FC 101
2007 Range Rover Sport TDV6
1971 Jaguar Series 3 E-Type Conv
1957 Landrover 88" Station Wagon
1957 Landrover 88"

Heinkeljb
Great Britain
Posts: 354
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:09 pm
Location: Lewes,Southern England

Re: Wheel Flange/Hub Gear Casing - help needed

Post by Heinkeljb » Sat Sep 19, 2015 2:31 am

Hopefully the "how-to" is of use to you, but also to others who haven't attempted to take their hubs apart as it appears very complicated when you first try.

John

p.s.

Maybe be you can get longer metric threaded bolts by visiting a car spares shop that deals with European cars and getting something like head bolts?
Last edited by Heinkeljb on Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
TechMOGogy
Canada
Posts: 2798
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:39 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Wheel Flange/Hub Gear Casing - help needed

Post by TechMOGogy » Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:54 am

Thanks to you both (I have read your thread as well Garry and it is very helpful)
I ended up taking the rear swing arms off this weekend so the hub gears should be this week.
I may do like you Garry and upgrade to the 75km/h gear set since I have everything apart, now would be the time.
My thinking is that with 75km/h gears and the larger 'driving' tires I have it will just lower my rpm - don't care about the actual top speed (once I get to about 60km/h in the Hafi I get to my "if I crash this thing I am dead" stage (and yes I know it is really more like 20-30km/h in a Hafi :mrgreen: )

Oh - an so far I have well over 1000 pictures and 100's of notes on how this thing is to go back together.
It will not be enough - there is always that missing angle or missing comment!

Dan
72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 96 350GDT Worker

User avatar
Garrycol
Australia
Posts: 387
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:49 am
Location: Canberra Australia

Re: Wheel Flange/Hub Gear Casing - help needed

Post by Garrycol » Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:17 am

Yes the high speed hubs do lower engine revs to a nice level for everyday driving around but the vehicle does then have higher gearing in all gears and the car is a little less zippy but you soon get used to that.

A well worthwhile modification if a somewhat expensive one.

Cheers

Garry
1973 Haflinger AP700
1977 Landrover FC 101
2007 Range Rover Sport TDV6
1971 Jaguar Series 3 E-Type Conv
1957 Landrover 88" Station Wagon
1957 Landrover 88"

User avatar
TechMOGogy
Canada
Posts: 2798
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:39 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Wheel Flange/Hub Gear Casing - help needed

Post by TechMOGogy » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:08 pm

Passenger side done last night in about 30 mins - luckily the bottom castle nut came off nice and easy and the top pin just slid out once I rotated it!
Driver side hopefully tonight - I tried the castle nut last night and it was not too willing!
Instructions were great - only thing I would add would be that a standard combination wrench will work with no issues if you can get it from the correct side.
I kept trying to attack the passenger side from the front but if you do it from the rear you have enough room (for the driver side it is opposite ie get to castle nut from the front but I will confirm tonight)
Thanks to all - oh and my seal looked ok from what I could tell so not sure where my passenger side leak was coming from :?: Have new seals for everything so that should eventually fix it.
72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 96 350GDT Worker

Heinkeljb
Great Britain
Posts: 354
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:09 pm
Location: Lewes,Southern England

Re: Wheel Flange/Hub Gear Casing - help needed

Post by Heinkeljb » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:58 pm

I know an ordinary combination spanner will work, it's just that most do not have slim enough side walls to go all the way to the bottom of the castle nut due to the shape of the arm of the drive shaft.

Your picture actually gives a good view of the problem area.

Grinding a suitable angle on the spanner allows it to go all the way to the bottom of the nut - really useful if the nut doesn't want to come undone!

Still, I am glad you have one side dismantled... I remember struggling with mine in the snow outside :evil: instead of being able to drive it.

John

Post Reply