Some questions for a new comer

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redman333
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Some questions for a new comer

Post by redman333 »

Just started getting interested in these trucks. Did some research on them. I like the 712M for the removable top but I think the 712K would be a better fit for my family. I've been eyeing the 718K as well though. I currently drive a 2004 Lexus LX470. I love it but honestly its a bit too nice to be taking through the woods when on trips. So I started looking for other vehicles and found the Pinz. Really like the size of the 712K and the 718K. I like the hard tops since they have the rear doors as well which would be nice for the little ones. I really like the idea of the soft top but theres no rear side entry doors on those that I could see.

So A few things I'm interested in. I like one of these to be able to do longer trips and have heard they are not good travelers due to the relatively low top speed and noise. The noise I can get used to or fix with sound deadening material. The no highway thing may be an issue. I usually only go a few hundred miles to get to where I want to explore but would still want something that could go up to a few States away.

On to the questions.

1. Due to the lower top speed should I consider a 718K vs the 712k

2. Do the 718s have heat and ac at all or is it easily added(I'm a mechanic by the way)

3. Whats the price ranges on the 718s in the states.(roundabout)

4. Is there financing for these vehicles at all.

5. How reliable are the vehicles.
Location Wilmington NC, Looking for a TD Pinz. Also 712K Pinz to look at. If anyone in the remote area would be willing to show thiers off that'd be great. Send me a pm.
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Jimm391730
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Re: Some questions for a new comer

Post by Jimm391730 »

I took my 721W across the country, 58-60mph, ten hour days for four days straight. There is no reason you cannot do this with a well maintained truck. Yes, this is noisy! 15-20k miles later, I had the engine rebuilt by Jim L. with some mods that give about 25% more power, put in a TD tranny (with overdrive) and I'm at roughly 66,000 miles on my truck (mostly highway) and am planning on a 3-4k mile trip later this summer with it. I still cruise in the low 60s mph, however now the engine rpms are more reasonable (3k rpm) but even a stock truck can do it if you take care of them.

Because of the different gearing, 710s are 12% faster. K's can be hot in the sun. 716/718s have disk brakes, power steering, diesel engines with radiators (meaning heat). Get one if you can. Find a truck that you can look at, and try them out before deciding.
Jim M.
712W and 710M
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David Dunn
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Re: Some questions for a new comer

Post by David Dunn »

Hello Redman333,
I’ve had 4 Pinzes since 2001, 1 each of a 710M, 712M , 716K and a ‘new’ 718K, and the TDs are a more civilized vehicle over the gassers. A 718 is capable of 10 to 15 mph over a 712, but you don’t want to run either of them full out because of the portals, 55 to 60 is a nice pace I am not a believer in the 5 speed TD tranny swap into a 712, but rather a 710 transfercase swap gives you a 12% reduction in rpm, and it is very doubtful you’d ever need the gearing for full GVW of a 712. As a mechanic, you know the benefit of running lower RPM vs WOT. Jim’s engine was built up, so the TD trans works better for him, but basically in the TD trans, what was 5th ( 1 to 1 ) in a 710/12 is now 4th in the TD meaning you lose 1 intermediate gear with wider steps in gearing needing more RPMs ( In the TDs, you needed to whine out each gear to avoid falling on your face from low RPMs and no boost).

TDs do have real heat because of the radiator; A/C has been done, but expensive.

Prices. LOL 712Ks are usually in the low to mid $30k…. a 718K, well let’s say that a NEW Jeep JKU Rubicon would probably be cheaper :shock: … and here are a few reason for that. Between 1985 and 2000 there was a total of less than 6000 total 716/18s made ( all variants) in Austria. Only 1210 made in the UK total. Now the number importable to the US are ones made before 1992 and that number is 3000 more or less ( again all variants, both LHD and RHD). I don’t have any figures for each model, but 6x Ks are among the fewest made, and after ’93, RHDs became the more prevalent ones made ( with ATL purchase of the Pinzgauer license)

You'd probably find it easier to sell a kid than fiance a TD Pinz. :roll: :wink:

Reliability goes back to proper maintenance and not thinking you're smarter than the engineers.. The 2.4TD of the P80 through P93 were the same as in the Volvo, but because of the tightly enclosed doghouse, cooling is very important and the routing of coolant lines ( SDP went through no less than 4 upgrades in the cooling system in the early TDs)... Also the doghouse of the TDs get very hot, so much so that they had an insulated cover over them

Not to talk you out of anything, but for a fun somewhat economical vehicle with decent off road abilities, and probably on par with your Lexus for size, a Jeep JKU are nice vehicles..
You can travel for hours in relative comfort at 75mph, AC and do moderate offroading when you get where you want. I have one, as may on this list do... they just don't have the 'wow' factor of a Pinz :D
.
The Trojan Horse... the 1st Pinz used to covertly carry troops into battle .




ATL Pinzgauer XM 718K TUM(HD) 6x6 FFR (aka The Green Grail)
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TechMOGogy
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Re: Some questions for a new comer

Post by TechMOGogy »

I agree which what David said except for the JKU talk... ;)
If you want something that will follow a Pinz and hit the highway while you enjoy cold AC... buy a G Wagon!
Made by Steyr Diamler Puch at the same facility as the Pinz and Hafi!

You can go simple like what Scott is selling: https://expedition-imports.com/G-Class_c_747.html

You could buy an ex German Bundeswehr Wolf (Example of one that just sold that was redone): http://bringatrailer.com/listing/1990-m ... 50gd-wolf/

Or you can head into the 463 body style but try to stick in the early 90's (and diesel but thats just me) to stick with the 15 year rule.
A quality G can be found much easier than a 718k Pinz!!
Cheers and good luck with whatever you decide.
72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 96 350GDT Worker
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David Dunn
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Re: Some questions for a new comer

Post by David Dunn »

Nice try Dan, the OP said ‘States’ not province , so the US is with a 25 year rule… except Cal which is pretty much nothing fun. :evil:

I’ve never dug deep into the G, but how fast does your G cruise at ‘comfortably’ ?

Since I have had good luck "thinking" myself into vehicles and they appear at my doorstep, I'll go for a Canadian Forces "G" :P
Just another vehicle the Canucks be ticked I got out them :P :wink:
.
The Trojan Horse... the 1st Pinz used to covertly carry troops into battle .




ATL Pinzgauer XM 718K TUM(HD) 6x6 FFR (aka The Green Grail)
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Jimm391730
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Re: Some questions for a new comer

Post by Jimm391730 »

how fast does your G cruise at ‘comfortably’ ?
My cousin has an AMG G Wagon, V8, dual turbos, I'd guess it would cruise at 120mph! (with 30 series profile tires, no less). But it will never see so much as a graveled road.
Jim M.
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TechMOGogy
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Re: Some questions for a new comer

Post by TechMOGogy »

My 350GDT' will cruise at 65-70mph all day long (top speed is 115 or so) and has front, centre and rear lockers
You guys can get 1990 300GD's and 1992 350GDT's & G320's (gas)
If you stick in the 90's you avoid the Kardashian crowd G's.
that was my point - the newer MBUSA G's are just stupid expensive boxes with way to much HP.

Dave if you can get a Canadian G I will trade you my Pinz and Hafi
Anyways, a G is better than a J**P was my point :)

PS for Dave: whatever you do, DON't drive a G...or you will have to own one!
Seriously
72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 96 350GDT Worker
redman333
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 8:28 pm
Location: Wilmington NC USA

Re: Some questions for a new comer

Post by redman333 »

David Dunn wrote:Hello Redman333,
I’ve had 4 Pinzes since 2001, 1 each of a 710M, 712M , 716K and a ‘new’ 718K, and the TDs are a more civilized vehicle over the gassers. A 718 is capable of 10 to 15 mph over a 712, but you don’t want to run either of them full out because of the portals, 55 to 60 is a nice pace I am not a believer in the 5 speed TD tranny swap into a 712, but rather a 710 transfercase swap gives you a 12% reduction in rpm, and it is very doubtful you’d ever need the gearing for full GVW of a 712. As a mechanic, you know the benefit of running lower RPM vs WOT. Jim’s engine was built up, so the TD trans works better for him, but basically in the TD trans, what was 5th ( 1 to 1 ) in a 710/12 is now 4th in the TD meaning you lose 1 intermediate gear with wider steps in gearing needing more RPMs ( In the TDs, you needed to whine out each gear to avoid falling on your face from low RPMs and no boost).

TDs do have real heat because of the radiator; A/C has been done, but expensive.

Prices. LOL 712Ks are usually in the low to mid $30k…. a 718K, well let’s say that a NEW Jeep JKU Rubicon would probably be cheaper :shock: … and here are a few reason for that. Between 1985 and 2000 there was a total of less than 6000 total 716/18s made ( all variants) in Austria. Only 1210 made in the UK total. Now the number importable to the US are ones made before 1992 and that number is 3000 more or less ( again all variants, both LHD and RHD). I don’t have any figures for each model, but 6x Ks are among the fewest made, and after ’93, RHDs became the more prevalent ones made ( with ATL purchase of the Pinzgauer license)

You'd probably find it easier to sell a kid than fiance a TD Pinz. :roll: :wink:

Reliability goes back to proper maintenance and not thinking you're smarter than the engineers.. The 2.4TD of the P80 through P93 were the same as in the Volvo, but because of the tightly enclosed doghouse, cooling is very important and the routing of coolant lines ( SDP went through no less than 4 upgrades in the cooling system in the early TDs)... Also the doghouse of the TDs get very hot, so much so that they had an insulated cover over them

Not to talk you out of anything, but for a fun somewhat economical vehicle with decent off road abilities, and probably on par with your Lexus for size, a Jeep JKU are nice vehicles..
You can travel for hours in relative comfort at 75mph, AC and do moderate offroading when you get where you want. I have one, as may on this list do... they just don't have the 'wow' factor of a Pinz :D
Thanks for all the info. Well I've done the Jeep thing and didn't enjoy it. Nice ride and all but just not my thing. It seems I've started my journey with a great offroader(01 Jeep wrangler). Too small upgraded to a brand new 2012 wrangler JKU still too small. And unreliable at that. Then got my LX470. While I like the creature comforts it's just too nice and still just a bit small.

With that said I am intrigued by the 718 since you said it has heat which is nice it's one less thing I'd have to add. Since people have done a that will help also. I'm located in NC and is nearly a necessity here.

So on pricing. You say the 710-712s are in the 30s. Just doing quick searches I've found some that are indeed in the 30s like you've said. I've also seen them all the way down to $12k though. Do you know what's the reason for the swing in prices. The reason I ask is if the 718s are in the $45ish range which would be higher then I'd be willing to go, then maybe I'd be able to find them in the $30k or less range which I'd be happy with.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Location Wilmington NC, Looking for a TD Pinz. Also 712K Pinz to look at. If anyone in the remote area would be willing to show thiers off that'd be great. Send me a pm.
redman333
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Re: Some questions for a new comer

Post by redman333 »

For all the talk about the G wagons honestly they are not my thing. Nothing about the performance or reliability just don't like the style.

Something about the pins I really like. I think it's a mix of military style, with extreme off-road capabilities and a very large cargo area.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Location Wilmington NC, Looking for a TD Pinz. Also 712K Pinz to look at. If anyone in the remote area would be willing to show thiers off that'd be great. Send me a pm.
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TechMOGogy
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Re: Some questions for a new comer

Post by TechMOGogy »

redman333 wrote:For all the talk about the G wagons honestly they are not my thing. Nothing about the performance or reliability just don't like the style.

Something about the pins I really like. I think it's a mix of military style, with extreme off-road capabilities and a very large cargo area.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Fair enough and we/I went off topic. Sorry about that.

However, if you think your Lexus is small, you really need to go look at a Pinz so you can get a sense of scale!
Here is a 710k, a 712k is only 30" longer!
IMG_1079.JPG
IMG_1079.JPG (50.45 KiB) Viewed 2027 times
72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 96 350GDT Worker
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David Dunn
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Re: Some questions for a new comer

Post by David Dunn »

So on pricing. You say the 710-712s are in the 30s. Just doing quick searches I've found some that are indeed in the 30s like you've said. I've also seen them all the way down to $12k though. Do you know what's the reason for the swing in prices. The reason I ask is if the 718s are in the $45ish range which would be higher then I'd be willing to go, then maybe I'd be able to find them in the $30k or less range which I'd be happy with.
No, the 712K are in the $30k+range, each number and letter represent an unique model. 710M were the most common, 6x hardtops are the rarest, whether gas or diesel.
Finding a 718K in the mid $40s would be more like finding a rust bucket, in recent years, some of the ex- SOCOM Pinzes have gotten as low as the low $30s, but they were highly bastardized and gutted by the US military, and those were 718Ms. Those that were restored went for a lot more.

To give you example of newer 718Ks, a Australian ATL 718K was sold at auction for $75k and was required to be exported from Oz, and a couple years back , another ATL 718K was offered at the equivalent to $92k USD in the UK and it didn't stay on the market long... both were RHD, which is the norm for ATL Pinzes.

I get emails every few months from people looking at TDs for my input and opinions because the discussion is in confidence. You won't find anyone ask about a particular TD for sale in the forum because someone else will snake it. Even gas Pinzes have been snaked
.
The Trojan Horse... the 1st Pinz used to covertly carry troops into battle .




ATL Pinzgauer XM 718K TUM(HD) 6x6 FFR (aka The Green Grail)
redman333
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Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 8:28 pm
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Re: Some questions for a new comer

Post by redman333 »

TechMOGogy wrote:
redman333 wrote:For all the talk about the G wagons honestly they are not my thing. Nothing about the performance or reliability just don't like the style.

Something about the pins I really like. I think it's a mix of military style, with extreme off-road capabilities and a very large cargo area.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Fair enough and we/I went off topic. Sorry about that.

However, if you think your Lexus is small, you really need to go look at a Pinz so you can get a sense of scale!
Here is a 710k, a 712k is only 30" longer!
IMG_1079.JPG
This proves my point actually. Even in this pic the driver in the pins sits way forward of where you would normally sit in a wrangler. So now where the front seat is in the wrangler, this would be cargo area plus the normal back seat of the wrangler will be storage as well as even in a portion of the hood area. All while still maintaining the similar size of the wrangler. Also the wrangler fenders sit further out then the cab where as the pins does not so it has a wider cargo area as well.

I have seen a 710m in person but have not seen a 712 yet in person. Would like to but ha sent yet. My thoughts are the 712 will have a lot more room even then the 710 and more traction.
Location Wilmington NC, Looking for a TD Pinz. Also 712K Pinz to look at. If anyone in the remote area would be willing to show thiers off that'd be great. Send me a pm.
redman333
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Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 8:28 pm
Location: Wilmington NC USA

Re: Some questions for a new comer

Post by redman333 »

David Dunn wrote:
So on pricing. You say the 710-712s are in the 30s. Just doing quick searches I've found some that are indeed in the 30s like you've said. I've also seen them all the way down to $12k though. Do you know what's the reason for the swing in prices. The reason I ask is if the 718s are in the $45ish range which would be higher then I'd be willing to go, then maybe I'd be able to find them in the $30k or less range which I'd be happy with.
No, the 712K are in the $30k+range, each number and letter represent an unique model. 710M were the most common, 6x hardtops are the rarest, whether gas or diesel.
Finding a 718K in the mid $40s would be more like finding a rust bucket, in recent years, some of the ex- SOCOM Pinzes have gotten as low as the low $30s, but they were highly bastardized and gutted by the US military, and those were 718Ms. Those that were restored went for a lot more.

To give you example of newer 718Ks, a Australian ATL 718K was sold at auction for $75k and was required to be exported from Oz, and a couple years back , another ATL 718K was offered at the equivalent to $92k USD in the UK and it didn't stay on the market long... both were RHD, which is the norm for ATL Pinzes.

I get emails every few months from people looking at TDs for my input and opinions because the discussion is in confidence. You won't find anyone ask about a particular TD for sale in the forum because someone else will snake it. Even gas Pinzes have been snaked
Ok well I guess even though I'd like 718 I think I'll keep my sights on the 712. Mostly due to cost. Just don't want to spend that much on one right now.
Location Wilmington NC, Looking for a TD Pinz. Also 712K Pinz to look at. If anyone in the remote area would be willing to show thiers off that'd be great. Send me a pm.
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VinceAtReal4x4s
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Re: Some questions for a new comer

Post by VinceAtReal4x4s »

I'd put the Pinz's cousin, which is also a military vehicle, into the extreme capability category as well, and it performs shocking feats with little driver's fatigue. 8)

But I know what you mean! I will have yet another Pinz someday. I really miss my 712 Trophy truck most of all. While not super practical, it was the most capable thing that I know of.

I'd recommend driving a Pinz first. Coming from a Lexus and going into a Pinz is kinda like riding a Gold Wing motorcycle and then getting onto a stripped down two-cycle dirt bike OR like sleeping at a Marriott then going to a tent in the woods.

The two biggest upgrades I'd budget for are power steering and professional level sound insulation. (and a modern soft top if you go the soft-top route)
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redman333
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Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 8:28 pm
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Re: Some questions for a new comer

Post by redman333 »

question for you guys, whats the difference between the Volvo 303 and the pinz? Both in design and functionality and cost. I haven't done any research at all on the Volvo but know they are similar. Do they have the same variants as in the 4 wheel setup and 6 wheel, along with hard top and soft top?
Location Wilmington NC, Looking for a TD Pinz. Also 712K Pinz to look at. If anyone in the remote area would be willing to show thiers off that'd be great. Send me a pm.
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