Difference between P80, P90 and P93?

Erik712m · Post by **Erik712m** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:13 am

Future reference here's the paint used to paint the catches.

fesm_ndt · Post by **fesm_ndt** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:07 am

Tads wrote: The sand-coloured 718

My guess is that vehicle is the one on Ebay, right now as I been noticing the 'differences'

Also noticed that I want it's aircon

David Dunn · Post by **David Dunn** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:34 am

Mike,
You need to remove the quote.. The pic above is a P90, the "first" UK made Pinz was in the previous pic.

ATL started production in '02... I don't know if the 1st was a TDI, or if the completion of a P93 from the components brought from Austria.
Can we keep this discussion in one forum? I know Glynn will find a lot of things interesting, as that rear dooor is done similar to what I had suggested to him.

fesm_ndt · Post by **fesm_ndt** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:47 am

yep could be right

I assumed his comment was that 718 as thought it quirky with the vent idea missing as from what I was told it was a UK MOD requirement.

Anyway a good collection of pictures on the listing

David Dunn · Post by **David Dunn** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:22 am

P90 grille is a dead giveaway

This one has the 'cut-in' vents , in front of the doors.
You mention about only having a single battery box.... did you see the fuel cutout on the left side of the cab? It would have been reserved for long range fuel tanks. I believe it was removed and the batteries moved from behind the left seat in the cab, back outside. There is another little telltale sign that it had dual tank... can you see it?

I haven't been able to see anything that is 'externally' different on the P93 and the TDI models to quickly identify the two.

A owner of a Swedish P80( by the grille) , was told by Styer that it had the P90 upgrades ( from the VIN)

fesm_ndt · Post by **fesm_ndt** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 5:13 pm

yep noticed the LH fuel filler area in the TD forum

yep looks like way too much space to fit just one missing toolbox

On an off topic note, I looked at fitting 3 tool bins on one side. Doable but at this point I think a PITA type of job

Not a bad looking wagon all in all.

Tads · Post by **Tads** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:57 pm

David's right - it's the 718K in the top picture that's the first UK built vehicle, not the P90 718T with the box body that's currently on Ebay. That vehicle came to ATL for a service and stayed on site for many years for some reason...

The first 20 or so UK built vehicles were mostly P93s although some were converted to 5 cylinders - never known as TDIs by the way, we always referred to them as 5 cylinders or 800 series (this being the first 3 digits of the drawing numbers for the 5 cylinder version).

There are no easy to spot visual changes between a P93 and a 5 cylinder although the badging on the grille and rear jerry can holder changed from SDP to Pinzgauer when ATL acquired the rights to the vehicle design. You can tell engine and transmission type by the VIN, it's the 6th digit. 1-2 are P80 with manual and auto box respectively. 3-4 are P90/P93, 5-6 are 5 cylinder - note that although 5 was assigned for a 5 cylinder manual, none were ever built.

The kick vents in the front panel on the flatbed were always a customer option although rarely fitted to UK spec vehicles. Triple battery boxes were fitted fairly regularly to 4x4s, using one normal box and a siamese-style double width box. Should be relatively easy to cut-n-shut a couple of boxes to achieve the same effect.

David Dunn · Post by **David Dunn** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:37 pm

Tad,
I knew ATL made some P93s from parts, but didn't know they had converted any to the 5 cyl. My earliest contacts with ATL had been about updating the powerplant, but they had only conversions to go from a P80 or P90 to a P93, and hadn't done anything at that point to fit the 5 cyl engine to an older chassis. The conversion were 'in house' only.... not likely for me to send my P80 across the pond, and expect US Customs to let it in a 2nd time.

I've alwys refered to them as a 'TDI' so no one would confuse it with any of the other 5 cylinder engines out there.... as it is, a Puch book actually mentioned the 4 cylinder diesel in the TD Pinzgauers ( I wonder who did their proofreading ?).

Though there are several oversized AMB bodies built on 718K platform, I have never seen any other example of a 716 ( or 710) 5 door platform being used with a soft top before my conversion of the Pink Cow in '03

On all the Austrian made TD Pinzes that I've seen, they all had this format on the VIN:
http://www.sdp-pinzgauer.org/html/pinz_iso_vin.html
the chassis number had an additional digit added to make the VIN 17 digit later on.
I don't know if the vehicles in the UK were VIN'ed differently, or if the factory might have issued a new VIN if they reworked a truck..
The US and Canadian have an entirely diffent VIN program, as to make it extremely easy to spot non- North American vehicles on entry.

Tads · Post by **Tads** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:33 pm

Most of the conversions were development vehicles for the 5cyl engine. There was never an engineered kit to take a P93 to a 5cyl although with a parts book and someone elses credit card it's not a particularly difficult swap, although of dubious value given that the P93 doesn't lose anything in terms of power to the 5cyl but you get a lot of extra complexity with the newer engine. The change was only made to comply with Euro III emissions regs and because of increasing obsolescence of the P93.

A box body version of the 716 was made by SDP for the UK MoD ambulance contract which it "lost" to the Marshall's bodied 130. Soft-top 5 door 716 though - no, don't know of any other ones like that.

The VIN you reference is very much the same as the UK format, the only changes being:

SFF: ATL manufacturer's ID

First 3 digits: 758 - UK MoD spec P93; 800 - 5 cylinder; 820 - Pinz II; 825 - "Vector" Armoured Vehicle

5th digit - added code 5 for Armoured Monocoque body (NZ spec)

6th digit - as described below. Sorry don't remember what number we ended up using for the Pinz II M16 engine with the ZF6HP26 box!

fesm_ndt · Post by **fesm_ndt** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:56 pm

Tad

you got any idea what the aircon brand is under the black box?

I may be reassembling a empty box shortly

Tads · Post by **Tads** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:13 am

Mike,

Sorry, as I mentioned it was a customer's vehicle that came for a service and stayed in storage for some reason for ages. As a result I never got to play with it. It may be a small Webasto through-roof unit but I'm really not sure.

Tom

fesm_ndt · Post by **fesm_ndt** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:29 am

G'Day Tom

We have the exact same type over here, but I am guessing most are butchered so will have to be rebuilt. The black bit seems to just be a protective cover to the typical box shaped bit underneath

Hopefully I'll lay my hands on one and there will be a recognisable brand on it someplace.

fesm_ndt · Post by **fesm_ndt** » Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:48 am

Tads wrote:Mike,

Sorry, as I mentioned it was a customer's vehicle that came for a service and stayed in storage for some reason for ages. As a result I never got to play with it. It may be a small Webasto through-roof unit but I'm really not sure.

Tom

hmmmm things that fall of the back of trucks (read Pinz).. that aircon unit is a Sutrak P/N 75, 40, 15, 135

As this started out as differences between P80, P90 and P93, I can add some more nitty gritty bits:

- sidelights
- stupid fuel filler neck
- front frame longer, shorter spacers behind bumpers
- intercooler
- nose mounted to the body not front of radiator brackets
- radiator and expansion tank different
- both radiator pipes under the floor
- dash is longer (in RHD vehicles)

well thats what I noticed thus far whilst nosing around

fesm_ndt · Post by **fesm_ndt** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:26 pm

fesm_ndt wrote: As this started out as differences between P80, P90 and P93, I can add some more nitty gritty bits:

- the heater lines are different

- the radiator is different (fills from the top unlike the P90 that fills through the lower line)

maybe both different to make it easier to fill up as the P90 procedure is quite long winded. I kept topping mine up over a few days as would keep finding entrapped air

fesm_ndt · Post by **fesm_ndt** » Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:40 am

fesm_ndt wrote: As this started out as differences between P80, P90 and P93, I can add some more nitty gritty bits:

Another difference

the body panel lip on either side of where the radiator seal goes is cut back on the P93 so the radiator sits around an inch further back.

I am listing this 'just' in case someone else decides to 'drop in' a P93 intercooler into their P90