Need help understanding new winch solenoid

[VinceAtReal4x4s]

I thought I knew these things pretty well but this newer design has me confused.

Mission: To install a wireless remote onto the new solenoid.

Problem: New solenoid has an extra ground that I do not understand.

I'm used to three wire remotes. The new solenoid's hand remote has a 5 pin connection: a +power wire, a forward+ wire, a reverse+ wire, a chassis/motor ground and this other solenoid ground. The remote has a simple SPDT switch so why this other ground? I was going to just study the remote's switch but it's very difficult to get that rubber grip housing off of it.

The wireless receiver I'm installing has the 4 expected wires: a power wire, chassis ground, and the +forward and +reverse wires.

I tested this and got the wireless to work fine by combining the chassis ground with this other solenoid ground, into one wire. I'd like to understand what's going on before I make this permanent.

I found this post that was talking about this issue but I dont understand what he means exactly.
"It took me a little thinking to figure out how the 5-pin controller works with 2 different ground circuits. Basically you have a "main" ground that grounds out with the winch motor ground and then you have a "switch" ground. When you move the switch on the controller you're closing 2 circuits, both the ground circuit and the power circuit. From what I understand this is a safety/reliability thing."



Here's a pic of the newer "contactor" solenoid and wiring diagram. The brown wire is my issue. The small, middle terminal is this other ground that the older, twin trashcan style winch solenoids don't have. To the left and right are motor reverse and forward. The chassis ground is a long wire that goes from the hand remote's wiring harness and connects to chassis ground.

[undysworld]

It's a Warn winch and a Badlands remote?
Looks like here is someone dealing with the same issues. http://www.greatlakes4x4.com/showthread.php?p=4091609
At least they show the same illustration, and seem like they explained things.

[Jimm391730]

I expect that the newer systems do not necessarily expect that the solenoid will be "grounded" through mounting, so they've added an additional ground wire to the solenoid. This way everything will work even if the solenoid is mounted to some plastic somewhere. After all, most everything is plastic nowadays. Just treat the two grounds (chassis ground and the brown wire) as the same, and connect the brown to chassis somewhere.

[VinceAtReal4x4s]

Thanks. Ok so combining these grounds is what I'll go with.

No, I wouldn't trust anything "Badlands". That company is part of the Chinese Ningbo Lift Winch Manufacture club, who makes most or all those cheap winches you see. They market them as good ol' USA-sounding names like Badlands, Smittybuilt or Tuffstuff, etc.. but its all the same, dangerous crap. Unfortunately, to stay alive, the trusted names are also building their newer "Economy" winches there, like Warn's VR series. It's sad how people allow the price to be the major deciding factor for something that can be so critical. I've been guilty of it too for a temporary install until I could make a deal on a better winch. A used, good winch is better than one of those and prices aren't that much different. I saw a very clean Warn M8000 go for $500 just a week ago.

The day you pull that winch remote trigger when stuck 40 miles from the nearest road, and wonder if it will work, is the day you wish you spent a little extra.

The only decent wireless remotes that I know of right now are made by Milemarker, Warn and Lodar. (I have a Milemarker)

Sorry about the rant, once again.

[GenevaPinz]

I expect that the newer systems do not necessarily expect that the solenoid will be "grounded" through mounting, so they've added an additional ground wire to the solenoid. This way everything will work even if the solenoid is mounted to some plastic somewhere. After all, most everything is plastic nowadays. Just treat the two grounds (chassis ground and the brown wire) as the same, and connect the brown to chassis somewhere.

I agree.
I went back to how my winches are wired. They are both from Goodwinch in the UK (chinese made with "local" quality control, testing and aftermarket service, kinda best of both worlds. At least it has been for me so far...). They use Albright solenoids where the center connector is for ground, same as on your technical drawing, but they ask their customers to run a wire from the winch's ground connection directly to the solenoid, and with a "piggyback" connector, another wire runs from the solenoid's ground connector to the remote socket. It's a bit different in your drawing as ground on the black wire "bypasses" the solenoid, but "comes back" through the brown wire. Why not...

I don't know if your remote is DPDT instead of DPST, and both the ground and the + (either forward or backwards) are switched, which would justify ground going through the remote before reaching the solenoid? In any case I don't see the advantages of switching the ground...

[undysworld]

The only thing I read anywhere that made any theoretic sense to me, is that the ground connection was switched too, so you don't have a "runaway" winch, if the switch mechanism fails in such a manner as to NOT disconnect the 12v+ to the winch.

But I didn't take the time to figure out how this was accomplished, nor whether it actually works that way.

:?: :?: