Gotta start somewhere, right?!?

All things not relating to the other forums.
Post Reply
cbevis
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:48 am

Gotta start somewhere, right?!?

Post by cbevis »

Hey guys...I need advice....

I'm a noob to the off road arena, and i've been lurking this sight for years (only recently signed up). I know what I want to do, drive, build, but I also know I don't have the finances to pull it off RIGHT NOW. I also don't have ANY off roading experience. I'm not interested in cutting corners, and I'm adult enough to "wait"...but I am also a true believer in being prepared. An expeditionary C303 is what I'm after, but I don't want to have to learn all those hard lessons that are in store for me on one.

That said....is there any wisdom in picking up some kind of mundane interim off-road vehicle to learn a few things on first? I'm thinking about this in terms of part of the investment towards something better. Nothing comes cheap....and wisdom often pays for fewer repair bills than bravery....and Jeeps are cheaper to repair than Volvo's: https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/ ... 00740.html
User avatar
VinceAtReal4x4s
Admin
United States of America
Posts: 2035
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:36 pm
Location: Ca. or lost in South West USA
Contact:

Re: Gotta start somewhere, right?!?

Post by VinceAtReal4x4s »

Anything Toyota.
"For those who risk, life has a flavor the protected shall never enjoy"

Your donation makes this site possible!

Image
User avatar
TechMOGogy
Canada
Posts: 2831
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:39 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Gotta start somewhere, right?!?

Post by TechMOGogy »

What kind of wheeling do you want to do or is near you?
Rocks, mud, forest, sand, etc
That jeep would be ok but you would probably spend most of your time fixing it.
You don't necessarily need massive tires and crazy lifts.
To pick up skills, look for a 4x4 club near you as they often have beginner days or teaching days where you can wheel
stock vehicles but learn when to use 4x4 high/low, rear & front lockers, how to pick a line, various recovery techniques, etc.
It's always best to just get out and do it vs watching or reading how to do it.
Not sure where your located but will assume somewhere near Minneapolis - see what local clubs are around you and go to a meeting!
http://www.offroaders.com/4x4-trails/mi ... directory/
72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 96 350GDT Worker
User avatar
rmel
United States of America
Posts: 1394
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:19 pm
Location: Woodside, CA
Contact:

Re: Gotta start somewhere, right?!?

Post by rmel »

Note that the Jeep posting did not mention the Diff or Tranie gear ratios.
If the Diff was not changed along with the increased Tires size this may
make a very poor crawler. Find one with Dana Axels and a decent X-case
or your off-roading may be limited to Forest roads :wink:
Puller: 71' 710K 2.7L EFI aka Mozo
Follower: Sankey MK 3, 3/4 Tonne
Rescue Pinz: 73' 712MK

Driver: Ron // KO0Q
User avatar
Jimm391730
United States of America
Posts: 1456
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:58 pm
Location: Idyllwild, CA

Re: Gotta start somewhere, right?!?

Post by Jimm391730 »

I initially had a Cherokee (not as built up as that one) that served me well, but mine had only the 4 banger which may have been the saving grace - too much power is often not beneficial, and this is what breaks things and teaches bad habits. Pinzgauers, on the other hand, have relatively tiny horsepower and conversely beefy drivetrain so it is very difficult to break, even when abused; the lack of power is NOT detrimental to where you can go (Mud and Sand slinging are the exceptions). You should have something to get the offroad experience with or you won't get any experience. You'll have fun with the Jeep but you may end up spending more than you expect, or not. You'll just have to dive in at some time, so go for it!
Jim M.
712W and 710M
undysworld
Norway
Posts: 1776
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:08 am
Location: Blue Mounds, WI

Re: Gotta start somewhere, right?!?

Post by undysworld »

If you intend to use the vehicle both off-road and on-road, make certain you buy one which meets the on-road equipment laws in your state.

Over-size tires, over-height bumpers, insufficient fender coverage, altered suspension are all examples of conditions which may be non-compliant depending on where you live.
It is better to go skiing and think of God, than go to church and think of sport. Fridjof Nansen
I hope to die in my ski boots... ...just not today. Me
cbevis
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:48 am

Re: Gotta start somewhere, right?!?

Post by cbevis »

VinceAtReal4x4s wrote:Anything Toyota.
lol....i heard that....I'm also looking (more seriously) at this guy: https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/ ... 00128.html
cbevis
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:48 am

Re: Gotta start somewhere, right?!?

Post by cbevis »

TechMOGogy wrote:What kind of wheeling do you want to do or is near you?
Rocks, mud, forest, sand, etc
Well...we've got a bit of everything in this state. Up north is the iron range: rocky forests, creek fording, the occasional dry creek bed with mostly cobble and gravel. Down south is the plains: glacial moraine, sandy loes and pete, with a lot of mud holes and bogs. And the eastern border is Mississippi river country...with combinations of all that crap.
TechMOGogy wrote:That jeep would be ok but you would probably spend most of your time fixing it.
You don't necessarily need massive tires and crazy lifts.
Whole heartedly agree with you...in fact, part of what intrigues me about that Jeep is the notion of trading those wheels/tires for some starry eyed jokers factory set up (and likely getting a little cash back in my pocket for them). Same with the springs in fact...I know enough to know I'm not going to need 8" of potential articulation!
TechMOGogy wrote:To pick up skills, look for a 4x4 club near you as they often have beginner days or teaching days where you can wheel
stock vehicles but learn when to use 4x4 high/low, rear & front lockers, how to pick a line, various recovery techniques, etc.
It's always best to just get out and do it vs watching or reading how to do it.
Not sure where your located but will assume somewhere near Minneapolis - see what local clubs are around you and go to a meeting!
http://www.offroaders.com/4x4-trails/mi ... directory/
will do! Thanks!
cbevis
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:48 am

Re: Gotta start somewhere, right?!?

Post by cbevis »

rmel wrote:Note that the Jeep posting did not mention the Diff or Tranie gear ratios.
If the Diff was not changed along with the increased Tires size this may
make a very poor crawler.
That is true. It was my first set of questions....everything is factory. Not factory fluids/gears, mind you...but factory ratios. (he was not clear about what he might have replaced as a means of routine maintenance...) Which, if it follows your average production XJ I-6 w/ 5-speed....that would be:
1st - 3.83
2nd - 2.33
3rd - 1.44
4th - 1
5th - 0.79

the transfer case is 2.72/1

Front axle - is a Dana 30 (high-pinion...better than the old CAD housing, lol): 1.16" diameter shafts, 7.13" ring gear
Rear axle - whereas this doesn't appear to be the dreaded Dana 35 with non c-clips (where by, the wheels would fall off should something catastrophic happen) it is still a Dana 35....and with this truck running 35"ers...i'm surprised it hasn't grenaded yet: 1.18" diameter shafts, 7.58" ring gear.
Gearing - an anemic 3.07.

Without the experience of knowing what a good set of numbers would feel like, I suspect even I would have a hard time being comfortable with these statistics. a 27 year old truck with 209k miles doesn't really need to be reving past 3k that often, lol....

BUT........ulterior motive below....
cbevis
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:48 am

Re: Gotta start somewhere, right?!?

Post by cbevis »

Jimm391730 wrote:I initially had a Cherokee (not as built up as that one) that served me well, but mine had only the 4 banger which may have been the saving grace - too much power is often not beneficial, and this is what breaks things and teaches bad habits. Pinzgauers, on the other hand, have relatively tiny horsepower and conversely beefy drivetrain so it is very difficult to break, even when abused; the lack of power is NOT detrimental to where you can go (Mud and Sand slinging are the exceptions). You should have something to get the offroad experience with or you won't get any experience. You'll have fun with the Jeep but you may end up spending more than you expect, or not. You'll just have to dive in at some time, so go for it!
Well...and certainly after having run the numbers in rmel's point. There's something to be said about taking a set of new 35's on new wheels and exploiting some poor sap on craigslist looking to trade off his factory wheels. Same can be said for the overkill lift....Springs are easy to swap out...and who knows! I may make a profit on it!

Or I can do the sensible thing and pursue that 4Runner linked above...which is also street legal....and have a decent daily driver too!

I'm not gunna touch the Pinzgauer versus C303 debate though, lol....I have no doubt they're comparable in capability but....I'm a Volvo NUT!
cbevis
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:48 am

Re: Gotta start somewhere, right?!?

Post by cbevis »

undysworld wrote:If you intend to use the vehicle both off-road and on-road, make certain you buy one which meets the on-road equipment laws in your state.

Over-size tires, over-height bumpers, insufficient fender coverage, altered suspension are all examples of conditions which may be non-compliant depending on where you live.
Absolutely agreed...not interested in testing John Law's measuring sticks...

Minnesota has nothing that keeps this particular rig off the road except for the bumpers....can't be higher than 25" from the bottom of the bumper to the pavement and can't be outside of 6" stock location. In other words....that jeep would need new bumpers.

Probably more relevant than that though is that this truck would never last long on the road at 80 MPH....if the gearing wasn't enough to put the cabosh on that, certain the fuel economy would, lol!
cbevis
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:48 am

Re: Gotta start somewhere, right?!?

Post by cbevis »

Thanks for all your input, guys(and/or gals?)! I like learning new things and I've done so today! I'll keep looking....and you know what? What the hell...i'll probably go take a look at the jeep too....just to say I did!
Post Reply