Another “what it’s like to own”

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Googledave
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Another “what it’s like to own”

Post by Googledave » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:20 am

Hi all, so the pinz bug bit me and I’m trying to either talk myself into one or talk myself out of one. Right now my daily driver is a 97 triple locked fzj80 on 35’s. But I also own fj40’s an fj62 and a diesel westy that we converted to 1.8gas. I’ve owned ever keep that keep makes including a serious rock crawler. So now I’ve got this bug up my poop hole to sell the 80 and get a pinz, specifically a 710k. So the research began and I really can’t get a grip on if they’re relatively reliable. 25% of people say best. 25% say worst EVB worse is there are 50% that say best ever recommend getting one but I sold mine and now drive a mog or a fj80... etc? So now I’m thoroughly confused lol.
So I guess my real intention is to use it to wheel in. The 80 is amazing but body panels are non existent and expensive IF you do find one. I was thinking the 710k because 1) I just absolutely love the looks of it and 2) I’ve owned enough old canvas jeeps to know that if my wife gets in it and it starts to rain in the cab it’ll immediately get banned from any family outings.
So the questions are: I know I a perfect wheeling world no tops and no doors but: with that extra weight up top how is it wheeling? If to top heavy, on days that I will wheel with my local 4x4 club, can the top be removed? If not, what about the 710m top. Does it hold up well to the elements? Rain and snow? I’ve read that 710m’s are miserably cold in the winter and 710k’s are miserably hot in the summer. I know realistically a/c retrofit is out of the question for me, but in our 82 westfalia we run a couple of truck fans and it’s pretty good. And the fj40 we just take the tip off.
Also questions on flexing, I’ve read that they don’t flex at all and they flop over all the time. True or more internet rumors? The last thing I want to do is flop a 710k on its side and explain to the mrs. Thanks again .

ChickenPinz
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Re: Another “what it’s like to own”

Post by ChickenPinz » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:15 pm

As to off-road experiences, keep in mind that the 710 has rather limited suspension travel as compared to some other vehicles -- expect to have tires in the air. On a trip to Hollister, we went with a 710k, FJ Cruiser, and newer 4Runner. Far and away the FJ did better at keeping it's paws on the rocks, and the Pinz definitely had some tire-in-the-air moments. Still, I'm pretty sure everyone had fun!

Oh, and I find that 62MPH is a practical sustained top speed, but bring ear protection if you're going any distance.
710K

Googledave
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Re: Another “what it’s like to own”

Post by Googledave » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:33 pm

Thanks chickenpinz! Do you find the k to be too heavy while wheeling? What about heat inside “the box” in the summer? I read that it’s unbearable and only should be used in spring and summer. Thanks

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Hotzenplotz
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Re: Another “what it’s like to own”

Post by Hotzenplotz » Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:55 am

Googledave

A Pinz is an all year vehicle. If you think it might get too hot inside a K-model, look for an M-model and roll up the tarp.
yes, the Pinz has a habit of keeping a wheel or two in the air, due to the limited travel of the suspension, but that is compensated by the option to lock all diffs.
Air down as much as neeed, and you will only be stopped by your own courage :-)
Cheers
Albert
========================
My Pinz has NEVER been with any army

Googledave
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Re: Another “what it’s like to own”

Post by Googledave » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:45 am

Thanks Hotzenplatz! What about wheeling a k vs an m. I’ve only wheeled in soft tops to keep weight down low. Do you find or know of any one that says that they are to top heavy for any serious wheeling.

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VinceAtReal4x4s
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Re: Another “what it’s like to own”

Post by VinceAtReal4x4s » Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:16 pm

They definitely are top-heavy for "serious" wheeling. If you are used to and/or learned to drive in a conventional 4x4 then you'll have an adjusting period driving a Pinz, and esp. a K model. You have to actually learn to drive off-road :D and pick your lines rather than just letting the suspension compensate for errors and misunderstanding. A Pinz is more capable in some ways when understood and I could share stories like of climbing very dangerous terrain on a dark, stormy night when a long line of heavily modified Defenders couldn't do it, but myself in a stock 710M flew up without an issue, to everyone's hanging jaws. I then had to pull up about 7 of them which the Pinz again handled easily. My excellent power-to-weight ratio, gearing, lockers, visibility and portals allowed me to do what no other could that night. I did the same thing again a year later, although it was just for fun this time and was a short but very steep river bank obstacle that everyone tried with various modified 4x4s. I flew up it in a 712M like it wasn't even there. I cleaned up on the betting pool that day because everyone had chipped in $5 saying I couldn't do it.

These days I've grown away from the trail rig/group ride bang-up-break-stuff and into more exploration/overland 4x4 concerns, which you may do one day as well as I believe that's the natural progression, and this is when you'd probably appreciate a K Pinz more. I'd steer clear for now and look at a 710M or even better but slower, a 712M with an aftermarket top, or stick to the more common 4x4 designs and go for a older G-wagen or a 70 series TLC, which are two of the best "normal" 4x4's ever made.

Oh and as far as a K being hot, any hard top that's painted a very dark color is going to get hot. If I had one I'd paint just the top white for starters. The Pinz is no more hot than an other 4x4 though in that regard. The great and unique thing about it is you can easily remove the door tops and open your roof hatch and it breathes better than any hard top out there! Also in the winter, a K heats better than most due to it's petrol heater which will run with the engine off. Try that in a stock TLC!
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Hotzenplotz
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Re: Another “what it’s like to own”

Post by Hotzenplotz » Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:39 am

Googledave wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:45 am
Thanks Hotzenplatz! What about wheeling a k vs an m. I’ve only wheeled in soft tops to keep weight down low. Do you find or know of any one that says that they are to top heavy for any serious wheeling.
Googledave

The blunt answer is "it depends", mostly on your definition of wheeling. We are a heterogeneous group of Pinzgauers, consisting of trucks of all models, hard and soft top, petrol and diesel as well as two / three axles.
On our trips like Carpathian mountains in Romania we can tell the pros and cons of each version.
A truck gets top heavy when you load the roof-rack, so keep heavy items as low as possible and spread the load across all axles. The K models provide better insulation against noise and temperature, but some folks enjoy the wind around their nose in a folded down M-truck...

Conclusion: try as many different versions as possible, your future Pinz is going to discover you :-)
Cheers
Albert
========================
My Pinz has NEVER been with any army

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rmel
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Re: Another “what it’s like to own”

Post by rmel » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:44 am

I'll add $0.02 to the discussion.

As an owner of a 710K and 712MK..

As far a inside temp goes, my K is far cooler than the M.
But that's by design. My K is Tan not Swiss Green, as Vince pointed out re-paint the roof.
A two tone with a Desert Tan top looks OK. Next is noise. My K is insulated, top, sides,
and flooring with noise reduction materials which also acts as insulation. It's cooler in summer
and warmer in the winter. You also have to consider future improvements, a K is a far better
platform for future improvements than an M; noise, climate, and electrical upgrades, storage,
security etc. It also depends upon your wheeling conditions, in particular dust. Here in NorCal
mid to late summer the trails are EXTREMELY dusty. If you roll up the sides of a M (even rolled down)
you better bring a leaf blower along with you as the insides of the truck will be packed with trail
dust covering all the gear in there. A K is nearly dust free.

As far as tippyness goes, as Vince points out keep weight off the roof, but yes the tippyiest is a
710K the most stable is a 712M. But a 710K versus a 710M is not dramatically different. And no,
a K is not sluggish in the trail.

IMHO you are not going to get anything but a qualitative feel and opinions from us. Your best bet is
find someone who has a Pinz and drive it. I would also suggest you do some comps on paper. For
example compare a Pinz to your FJ40 -- you have experience with that rig so how do they compare
on paper; gearing, hp, weight, wheel-base, track width, clearance, etc etc . I think the comp will
show you the strengths right on paper. The Track and WB of a FJ40 and Pinz are pretty close, but
the Torque force applied to the ground between these two trucks are a world apart.

One last comment on the tippyness factor. We all have seen Jeeps go narcoleptic on the trail,
sleeping on their sides. Many of these cases are just being stupid, but a lot are Jeeps lifted aggressively
with large tires and not compensating with wider track axles. So they trade-off clearance with a higher
center of gravity and also have increased their crawl speed if they didn't change the gearing. The last
point is as important as center of gravity -- crawl speed. The slower you can crawl W/O stalling, the more
stable the situation -- you ain't bouncing up the obstacles. Gearing is low on a Pinz, the Austrian's put a
lot of engineering into these rigs and essentially they don't need re-engineering of the driveline to be
superb on the trail, but with any 4x4 you have to know your truck.
Puller: 71' 710K 2.7L EFI aka Mozo
Follower: Sankey MK 3, 3/4 Tonne
Rescue Pinz: 73' 712M

Driver: Ron // KO0Q

Googledave
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Re: Another “what it’s like to own”

Post by Googledave » Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:38 pm

Thanks everyone for their input.. it’s exactly what I needed! I drove a 710M today and was blown away. It feels like it was built for me! lol very simple,no frills just function. It handled surprisingly well. I like it. Now, to see if it’s a 710m or 710k that I need!

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rmel
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Re: Another “what it’s like to own”

Post by rmel » Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:52 pm

Wait till your on the trail and find you can flip the lockers ON
and shift the X-case on the fly while moving. All very simple
but incredibly well engineered where it matters.
Puller: 71' 710K 2.7L EFI aka Mozo
Follower: Sankey MK 3, 3/4 Tonne
Rescue Pinz: 73' 712M

Driver: Ron // KO0Q

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