Toy hauler

MarkPinz · Post by **MarkPinz** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:04 pm

Anybody ever fit a Pinz in a toy hauler? Realize their a bit tall but some of the newer ones I've seen at recent RV show's might do the job? Was thinking that even a triple axle fifth wheel might have stability problems (wagging

). Just a thought we have an F350 PSD w/ camper & trailer now and have looked at fifth wheels as a possible upgrade in the future.

David Dunn · Post by **David Dunn** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:35 pm

Mark
I had looked into the larger toy haulers about 3 years back. They typically could not fit a Pinz in length ( without removing cabinets), get the Pinz in the back opening without swapping to small tires, or have the overall carrying capacity needed to haul the Pinz.... let alone if the trailer would have enough tongue weight.

What I would like to find is something like an Ifor Williams trailer. A UK friend has a 14' by 6'6" wide one with the bed over the wheels. With the 195x12 tires, it makes for a low bed height and a narrow overall package. Unfortunately, there are not any tires on this side of the pond that are anywhere near the rating. The trailers are rated for 3.5 (metric) tons.

Dave Dunn

mjnims · Post by **mjnims** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:54 pm

The only solution I found was to make a larger version of a "scorpion" http://www.fleetwoodcampingtrailers.com ... n=Scorpion trailer. I found a 24' flatbed trailer and a small pop up camper that I could pull the trailer frame off of and mount on the front portion of the flatbed. I was looking to put a removeable canopy enclosure over the rest of the trailer for larger living space when set up. The price was not bad and the setup time would not be too bad. The Pinz would of course be outside during towing but I think it would manage. The whole package would not be as convienent as a 5th wheel toy hauler but very doable and a lot cheaper. The trailer was $4,500.00 the pop up camper was $3,000.00 and the canopy was $1,500.00. When all was said an done the wife decided that it was just as easy to set up a tent or stay in a motel. I guess I really did not need another trailer anyway. I have kept the plans for future reference and might someday go this route but for now the flatbed and tent will have to do.

HafWit · Post by **HafWit** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:16 pm

If you want to go that route, you should get yourself a Haflinger!!! Not only will it fit into most Toy Haulers, but you will still have room and weight capacity for your other "toys"

M Wehrman · Post by **M Wehrman** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:23 am

I sometimes wish they made a "quarterlinger" so I could carry one on my keychain for those 'unexpected" emergencies........

krick3tt · Post by **krick3tt** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:56 am

How about flat towing a pinz? What would be the max speed and, oh...of course there are issues that I just cant imagine till I try it. Should I even try this?
Thoughts on flat towing please.

Cheers,
Morris

mjnims · Post by **mjnims** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:17 am

Flat towing has been discussed a lot. Seems the biggest draw back is the speed. If the speeds are kept to the same operating speeds of the pinz should not be that big of a deal for shorter trips. A lot of concern has been placed on what would happen if a portal failed. I think it is funny that people give little thought to driving a thousand miles but get bothered by towing it the same distance. I had a trailer capable of hauling the Pinz before I bought the pinz so I prefer to put it on a trailer for longer trips. I have never been a fan of flat towing any vehicle so I most likely would have bought a trailer for the long trips.

MarkPinz · Post by **MarkPinz** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:07 pm

Dave,

Those Ifor Williams trailer's look to be very well made! Have rented a tilt bed trailer a few times & really like them. Although the one I rented was made of steel probably weighed a bit more than normal?

Of course at the RV shows the salesmen will tell you anything to sell something

Most of the guys had no technical clue anyway when asked simple weight capacity questions. Will stick with the camper / trailer set up for now if anything maybe upgrade to a camper with slide outs. Being a fairly large fella the camper is a little cramped with the two of us especially the tight sleepover cab. Ours is a 95 Lance 10'6" the sleeping area is the lower type think the taller setups came after 99.

A Haflinger would definitely be cool to own but have enough toys for my budget now.

David Dunn · Post by **David Dunn** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:13 pm

The big difference between driving a Pinz and flat towing is "feel". While driving a Pinz the driver is aware of every feel and change, and can react. Whereas flat towing you are 15' or more removed from the driver's seat and oblivious to anything happening behind them until it may be too late.
A couple of other points to remember:
1) Towed vehicles are now being considered same as a trailer ( in a growing number of states), and as such, must have a braking system controlled by the towing vehicle and "self lock" if it should break away.

2) If your Pinz ( or whatever toy you may choose to flat tow) becomes disabled, you are at the mercy of a tow service to bring it home.... bad enough if 50 to 100 miles, but, you'll pay for the price of a trailer for any longer trip, plus the repairs to the Pinz and any damage the tow truck driver does too.

3) If you should have a problem with a trailer, there are hundreds of shops that carry trailer parts that can cut your delay to a minimum.

If you "think" that you don't have the space for a trailer. The trailer can be used to park the Pinz on at home too. Blocked and stabilized for continuous use. ( and no forklift required

)

There is more, but this post already exceeds my 3 finger rule.

Dave Dunn

btw Greg, you need to reduce your avatar's size

M Wehrman · Post by **M Wehrman** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:23 pm

Years ago when I worked on Subarus we had one come in for no start. The owner flat towed behind a 35ft motorhome.he also used the car as additional storage. Things rolled around inside throwing car into gear. Driver felt nothing during his trip. The only savable parts on the engine was the intake assy,valve covers and oil pan. Can you imagine the stuff going on with the car in 1st and traveling 65 down the road! Just one more thing to think about...
Mark

Pinz Enthusiast · Post by **Pinz Enthusiast** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:57 pm

Markpinz.

Having been one of those RV Salesmen in my past, 2002 - 2005 I can tell you like Dave said the pinz won't fit with out moving some walls or cabinets, if you go out and look 99% of them have Toy areas of only 12' to 13' tops, even on some of the monster 5th wheel units, and most the time the axels on them aer only rated to carry a few thousand pounds over the curb weight of the trailer, I think maybe I might have seen one unit with a payload of 3000lbs, the other issue is the door height it's usually only 65", now if you find a good used one long enough you could do some relocating of walls or cabinets, replace the axels with heavier capacity, and have someone extend the door and opening, should only run an extra 5 to 7k, now for safety most toyhaulers axels are not set far enough back to handel the weight, so all I mentioned before is a waste of money, now if money is no issue for you, do like we are doing order a Powerhouse Coach, with a 35' self parking trailer, the motorhome can tow 40,000 pound load and is a pretty sweet setup....

http://www.powerhousecoach.com/

David Dunn · Post by **David Dunn** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:09 am

Mark
the Ifor Williams trailers I have been looking at were only flatbeds without tilt. Weight in the 1600lb range ( nothing special), but with the small low profile tires make for a low platform height too, only slightly higher than conventional trailers with the tires outside the bed ( easy to load the entire bed with a forklift

). What ticks me is that Goodyear make the trailer tires for the UK market with a 2000lb +/- rating( 21" tall) in the low profile, but for the US market, they top out at 1300 lbs... far short of what is needed for the combined weight of a Pinz and trailer.

Maybe I'll just design my own trailer.

Dave Dunn

Anthony · Post by **Anthony** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:29 am

Dave,

I did not know that Ivor Williams Trailers sold in the US

, they certainly have a very good range of all different types, flat tipping and transporter as well as others. They are all very well made and galvanised and are made here in Wales GB.

http://www.iwt.co.uk/home.htm

For the Transporters http://www.iwt.co.uk/products/cartrailers.htm

I have no connection to the above but would happily own any of there kit.

David Dunn · Post by **David Dunn** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:42 am

Anthony
Ifor Williams trailers have never been sold in the US. It might be said that I have an eye for superior products.

My friend in Southhampton has used and now owns one of them. It was a couple years back when I was helping with him sort through Haflingers ( by emails) and received several pics of a Haf he had retrieved and the trailer caught my attention more than the Haf.

I noticed first that the Haf sat "proportionally well" on it and with further pics saw that the bed was at the same level as the Haf's, and the tires appear to be about the same diameter.
The CT166 looks like what he has, but I don't know if it's tilts. I especially like the narrow 2m width.
http://www.iwt.co.uk/products/flatbed/tiltbed.htm

Since there is no readily available source of the low profile tires on this side of the pond ( and too expensive to ship and store).... I'll do what any self respecting Yank would do, design and build someting simialar with available materials.

Cheers
Dave Dunn

rla001 · Post by **rla001** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:00 pm

We had a custom built made. Basically it is a draft horse trailer with the slant wall removed and ties down anchors added to the floor. It is a Four Star trailer and Outlaw did the living quarters and was purchased through Murdock Trailers in Loveland Colorado. It is long and heavy (especially with the pinz in back), not the easiest thing to navigate down the road but we have had fun with it for the last three years. Getting it backed in beside our house on the parking slab without harassing the neighbors shrubbery in not an easy task.

As a PS we flat towed the pinz behind a 12ft slide in camper and the white Chevy pictured here for 3 years before getting the behemoth with minimal problems. My steering knuckle pins wore out and had to be replaced (discovered when front end vibration started getting bad) I was never convinced that flat towing caused this problem, however I will concede that it contributed to its wear (but no more then driving those distances would have). I probably would not have ignored the vibration for as long if I had driven the pinz every where though.

Rich A.

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