SOS WI DOT Cancels ALL Pinz Titles!

[EuroPinz]

Well guys,

Please do not forget that there were some Pinzgauer build for use as a snowplow (710 Model) and both Models (710 + 712) as firefighting vehicles. Hence they are labeled as roadworthy. Simply send an email to Graz in Austria and you will get all the information that you need (Or I/we from Europe can help). If you don't even know in what country the vehicle was build you are certainly not able to judge it as being or not being roadworthy. Maybe the US Army is planning on buying a bunch of them and they don't want civilians to have some.

Anyway, isn't now a large american company the major shareholder of the construction department of the Pinzgauer. Try to contact them. They might be interested in knowing that, in case they ever sell Pinzgauers to the US military, those vehicle will not be allowed to drive in Wisconsin.

Regards,

Jacques

[MASSIVE PINZ]

I am currently building a Porsche engine for a Senator from the state of Wisconsin...

Let me see how "cool" he is.

[undysworld]

Jacques, If you could help me out by trying to contact Graz and get any information regarding firetruck use (or any type of "on-road" use by Pinzs in the U.S.) I'd sure appreciate it. Similarly any info on current U.S. ownership of the Pinz factory/business. I'd love to follow up on that.

Jake, I would greatly appreciate hearing which of my senators is a fellow car nut. This will probably go there eventually.

Thanks to all who are following this thread and especially those with advice to offer!

I'll try to keep this updated.

Paul

[EuroPinz]

OK @ Paul,

I'll get you all the help you'll need directly from the factory. On the other hand Peter Farrer (Australia - aka PROFPINZ)has so much documentation that he might also be able to help and he knows the name of the US company that is the major shareholder of the Pinzgauer section. He even posted it somewhere here in the Forum.

No worries - we'll get this turned around. Whatever you do - don't send the old title back as you would simply agree with their ruling!

Regards,

Jacques

P.S. With the time difference I can't do anything here today - but I'll call the factory tomorrow and have information for you when you come online.

[Bernd]

Hi to all,

it´s a good possibility, alas a sad one to help a little bit in appreciation of this helpful forum:

I own a 1978 Pinzgauerr Firetruck that was never in military service, here pictures back from 1978, when the vehicle was given to the fire brigade in Kapfenberg-Hafendorf, Styria:







after some restauration work:





the car is back on the road and registered as normal passenger car:




If you need further documentation, just pm me, I hope you can sort out this rather annoying issue...

Greetings from Austria

Bernd

[Wayne Roberts]

undysworld- Stewart & Stevenson is now the current owner of the Pinzgauer brand. http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... n%26sa%3DN[/code]

Wayne

[David Dunn]

Paul and all
BAE, Armour Holding, S&S and Automotive Technik ( the chain of Pinzgauer ownership the last 17 years) only hold license to make and sell trucks and parts for the 716/718 and variant Pinzgauers. The rights and information for the gas Pinzes was retain by SDP, and Magna Steyr. So, any contact with them will be like trying to get a pig to sing.... it will only annoy them.

This morning I called and made a request for Hagerty's Legislative Advocacy department to look into this. For those unaware of them. They follow and report to their members ( insured ) about upcoming bills , either federally or state wise and lobby to protect our interests. I would hope a MVPA member would have done the same with that group.

At this point, someone in WI needs to contact the DMV and ask what they want to correct this " misinformation" they have (I'm being nice ).

Hopefully, this will turn out to be an attempt at a policy enforcement from an uninformed mid level employee, and all actions reversed.

Dave Dunn

[ScottishPinz]

Scooter, I would buy some time and fish for info by simply returning the letter stating that your vehicle is not a Swiss made military vehicle.

Let them try to find out what it is...

We know it is an Austrian built vehicle designed for both on and off-road use. The users manual has civi specs as well as military, no roof hatch in the hard-top (some fire trucks have this though) fabric seats and no rifle racks etc. A friend of mine has a civi 710K.

[milesdzyn]

Also remember that the Pinz was also sold here in the USA, Even if it was for a short time and only a few were sold, that may be all you need to prove your case as far as road worthiness. Theres got to be records somewhere?

Miles

[Scooter]

I made a call to the DMV here in WIS. I talked a guy and he gave me his superviors name. The guy said that they did some research on the Pinz. That is how they came up with this re-call. I called her and left a message on her voice mail to call me back. No response today.

I contacted the MVPA and got an e-mail from John the MVPA National Board member from Minnesota. Seems they have been working on this since August with one of thier members. He stated that "He has received a postive response from his state senator" from this member.

I plan on calling this DVM supervisor again in the morning. I do not want to challenge the rulling, just get the facts as "they" see it first. Once the facts are out, it will be easier to fight. Rather than picking a fight right away. They are putting a list together of the effected owners.

PM me if you want the MVPA guys contact info.

Scooter

[lindenengineering]

Scooter
That's a good posture to take. Let them strike their colours before firing.
Best of luck I am eager to see what becomes of this and a wise move to contact the MPVA.
Dennis

[EuroPinz]

I made a call to the DMV here in WIS. I talked a guy and he gave me his superviors name. The guy said that they did some research on the Pinz. That is how they came up with this re-call.

Sorry to say this - but I really question this. So they did some research and found out that the PINZGAUER WAS BUILD IN SWITZERLAND!!!!!!!
I am wondering if their research took longer then 5 seconds!!!

On the other hand. Isn't the HUMMER (aka HUMVEE) not build exclusively according to military specifications? If that is the case, this vehicle should also be banned from driving on the road. This would give you a bit more power, as there are more Hummer owners as Pinzgauer owners + the military will need special approval to drive thru Wisconsin.

In Wikipedia you can read the following.A less then 2 second search on Google

Pinzgauer is a high mobility all-terrain 4x4 and 6x6 military utility vehicle manufactured in Guildford, Surrey, United Kingdom, by Automotive Technik (ATL). ATL has been manufacturing the Pinzgauer since the year 2000. Before then the Pinzgauer was produced by Steyr-Daimler-Puch in Graz, Austria (hence the name, based on an Austrian breed of horse). ATL has since then been acquired by Stewart & Stevenson Services, Inc. in 2005, which in turn became a subsidiary of the aerospace and defence group Armor Holdings, Inc in May 2006. One year later Armor Holdings was itself acquired by BAE Systems.

During production from 1971 until 1985 18,349 first-generation 710s and 712s were produced and sold to both Civilian and Government buyers.

Importing

A popular idea in North America and other countries is to import first generation Pinzgauers for individual use. Any Pinzgauer can be imported, but due to the high cost and the difficulty in certifying them the second generation Pinzgauers are very rarely imported. First generation Pinzgauers are often imported because they are widely available and thus cheaper. Both Switzerland and Austria have released many 1st generation pinzgauers into the civilian marketplace as they converted their fleet to newer trucks. Likewise, 1st generation Pinzgauers sold to civilians in Europe are occasionally found and imported.

But most will find the Pinzgauer to be as safe or safer than its contemporaries due to the high quality of engineering the SDP factory utilized.

The Pinzgauer is used quite widely in the United Kingdom as a fire engine in smaller towns and villages and is increasingly replacing the Land Rover Defender in the military utility vehicle role despite its high cost of upwards of US$100,000 per unit.

The Pinzgauer was also marketed to the civilian marketplace world-wide for use as campers, farm trucks, ambulances, fire-trucks, and rescue vehicles. Likewise, many ended up being used as tourist vans due to their large passenger capacity and stable, reliable platform. Pinzgauers have been used as tourist transports in Africa, Australia, South America, Hawaii, and other exotic locales. Some are still in use today. Pinzgauers were also marketed to and used extensively by energy companies for oil exploration purposes. A few pinzgauers were used for off-road racing, including the famous Paris to Dakar Rally.

@ Paul

I have contacted this morning Mister MUELLER Johannes who works for Magna Steyr and is responsibile for homologation of the vehicles build by Magna Steyr. He confirmed to me that the Pinzgauer was build for military and civilian use and that all Pinzgauer are considered as vehicles that may and can be driven on official roads. He has asked for more information. All I was able to do was to tell him what is happening, send him a link from this Pinzgauerforum related to the matter, a link from the German Pinzgauerforum related to this matter and a link of the picture from DOT Wisconsin that was posted in this Forum.
You might want to email him as well more information and maybe the same document.

I have his email adress but no abuse will be tolerated by Magnasteyr. I am sending you the adress by PN. I can only emphasize on the fact that we do not need to flood them with requests as we (in Europe + Switzerland) are allready helping out. A simple email with a properly scanned picture of the document will suffise and of course your contact adress/email in order for him to provide you with all necessary documents. Afterwards you can post these documents on this forum for other people to use, should someone else need them.

If you need more help simply ask. The worldwide Pinzgauercommunity is standing behind you guys for support and assistance. In the mean time, can this be of any help. It's a flyer that was printed when a company in TX wanted to sell Pinzgauers in the USA.

http://pinzgauer.kiruna.de/media/robi/P ... ochure.pdf


Good Luck,

Jacques

[Robi]

Hi Guys,

there were many Pinzgauers in Western Germany used at a surface mining site at "Rheinbraun AG". I would think this is of course regular civilian use.

Since the Pinz was a really expensive vehicle, not much were sold to the civilian market. But it was available in both civilian versions - gas and diesel.

There is also an article in the German "offroad" magazine, whre a civil Pinz was presented at 1980 IAA (International Automobile Exhibition in Frankfurt). Have a look at: http://www.off-road.de/home/modules/new ... storyid=28

Good luck to everybody

Robi

PS. Excuse my awful english

[Scooter]

Well today I talked to the supervisor and got some more insite into this mess.

They "researched" the PINZ and found that is was only for military use. Even though the Pinz was made for civilian and military uses, I own a military truck. I stated that the civilian model and military model were the same, it did not matter.

Asking the question of what needs to be changed or updated to make it road worthyl, she could not tell me. She did not know any specific details of why or what is wrong with it.

Even though other states are letting the Pinz on the road, does not make it right here. Each state can make it's own policy for the truck.

Bottom line this will have to go over her head or department to policy makers to review any change in policy. Seems they made a mistake years ago allowing the trucks to be titled in the first place and NOW they are making it right. The solution may be that if it can be proven that the civilian model and military model are exactly the same and both were made for road use they may not have a case.

They are even going back after Willy owner too. Just the records are not a easy to find and there is a gray area of how some of them were titled by manufacturer.

Scooter

[milesdzyn]

I'd find out how many H-1's are registered in WI as they were produced for military (HUMMVEE) and then civilian (H1) sales so using their concusions for the Pinz All H-1's should be classified as a military vehical only. I'll bet some rich H-1 owner won't get any letters from the DMV.

Miles