710K Export project

[GenevaPinz]

No aggression felt whatsoever, don't worry. I think we all agree on the general idea of improving, and just slightly disagree on the details of the execution...
I don't expect the front pin to be used for any long distance towing, just as a factory tow point for temporary use (emergency or recovery). Vince's shackle mount is sturdy, reliable, and designed for use with a shackle which is very convenient.... when you have a shackle.

Personally, I think that the factory pin offers some capacities that a shackle mount doesn't, i.e. allowing the use of a tow strap without the need of a shackle. I agree this should not happen, but if I can retain this capacity by just having some material removed (not even added) from the winch mount, I will.

Having shackle mounts on each side would allow the best of both worlds at the same time on one truck, without having them off-center by too much.

Again, this is not criticism against Vince's 710k which is a beautiful, well executed truck and I did not post to criticize, just to answer why I would choose to leave access to the factory front pin.

[texas pinzgauer]

That truck turned out great guys! It also looks a whole bunch better than when I first shared my photos of it with you.

[David Dunn]

But they added a winch mount and winch that styer did not see a need for.

Well it's my point...! Steyr did not install a winch, but they installed a tow pin already

In the ‘60s and ‘70s( and even today) MILITARIES didn’t/don’t put winches on most of their vehicles and on the ones they did, they were hydraulic or PTO driven. And a winch on a”light” vehicle was almost unheard of. Off the top of my head, I can’t think of a single vehicle that the military used an electric winch on ( back in the ‘60s, ‘70s or 80s). Special Forces’ vehicles might, but they were an exception. Military vehicles’ electrics were not up to the task of an electric winch.

When you come to the TDs, the integrated front pin was abandoned in favor of a flat plate and a bolt-on recovery pin, and there are many pics of military TD Pinzes with electric winches… it’s not a hard search to find a bunch of military TDs with electric winches.

You need to put things in perspective of the militaries at a given time. …. Steyr didn’t put auto trannies in Pinzes either, but they did with the TDs. Times and technologies change

“If you were to daisy chain the trucks for towing I could see using the front pin but since no one thinks flat towing is an option (even though styer did) there is no real use for the pin.”

Again, words need to be put in perspective. The front pin is for recovery, not towing (in the broad term).

You cannot flat tow at road speed any vehicle with a single point tow bar, even at slow speeds, the towed vehicle will wander all over the road without someone inside to steer it. That is why tow bars are a V shape with 2 point mount on the towed vehicle. ALL US military tow bars are of this design

Military 1300 Mogs have a single point ”tow” bar (a single bar with an eye at each end, as an accessory) that would be called a “tow” bar, but use would be limited to recover another large vehicle, or daisy-chaining several trucks to recover something even larger. Again using it to tow at speed would be impossible without someone in the towed vehicle to steer it ( and the front pin wasn’t in the center of the vehicle either!)

Another interesting difference between militaries is that the US uses shackles while European use pins

[4x4Pinz]

Another interesting difference between militaries is that the US uses shackles while European use pins

funny my 1956 DAF uses shackles Yes I just had to go there.

[David Dunn]

Another interesting difference between militaries is that the US uses shackles while European use pins

funny my 1956 DAF uses shackles Yes I just had to go there.

Doesn't that have an American engine too?

[Andre]

The winch mount pictured on the export project runs $375 and was ordered to those exact specs. Vince added the shackle hanger later. I prefer leaving access to the nose pin on most of my designs. That's why I also built the other mount that had the access hole as well as a new pin that didn't interfere with the winch when unlocking.
for some reason the forum says my image is to large to be uploaded.

[berger]

Looks great!


Sent from my iPhone

[TechMOGogy]

The winch mount pictured on the export project runs $375 and was ordered to those exact specs. Vince added the shackle hanger later. I prefer leaving access to the nose pin on most of my designs. That's why I also built the other mount that had the access hole as well as a new pin that didn't interfere with the winch when unlocking.
for some reason the forum says my image is to large to be uploaded.

Forum has a 90kb limit which seems really small in todays world of 5+mp cameras on phones.
I understand we can't be uploading 1mb+ photos here but to convert a photo to meet the 90kb limit is challenging (and takes time).
I think that is why some people do not bother uploading pics.
You can always upload them somewhere else and use the Img button but if the photo ever gets moved or the site goes down - the photos are gone for good.
Take a look through the Pinzgauer technical (old) section and you will see a ton of posts where there are just X's vs photos as people moved them or photo hosting sites went under etc - it is a shame as it removes an important part of the 'archive'

That is a great winch bumper design but why have the D rings if you can get to the Pinz pin?
I read that you should not use the Pinz pin to strap down for trailering as it could cause things to shift and bend and cause the doors to pop open. Are you then not supposed to use it for vehicle recovery as that would be more stress then a tie down?
Confused or I am missing something?!?
Thanks,
Dan

[texas pinzgauer]

Of course it looks great, Andre built it!

[Andre]

I wanted something to fill the gaps on the left and right as well as be able to run multiple pulley blocks for decreased winch ware.

Recovery doesn't usually involve a constant downward pull for several hours at a time, against the trucks suspension. That will distort the sheet metal nose tube and cause front door miss alignment if over done. That's why it's not recommended for lashing down to a trailer.

[David Dunn]

I read that you should not use the Pinz pin to strap down for trailering as it could cause things to shift and bend and cause the doors to pop open. Are you then not supposed to use it for vehicle recovery as that would be more stress then a tie down?
Confused or I am missing something?!?
Thanks,
Dan

If you look at some of the TD models ( and some gassers), recovery eyes have been added down closer to where the extension tube is bolted to the central tube. This puts the pull stresses more in line with the drivetrain and eliminated the cantilevered pulling on the body.... just gets you dirtier hooking up.

[milesdzyn]

I read that you should not use the Pinz pin to strap down for trailering as it could cause things to shift and bend and cause the doors to pop open. Are you then not supposed to use it for vehicle recovery as that would be more stress then a tie down?
Confused or I am missing something?!?
Thanks,
Dan

If you look at some of the TD models ( and some gassers), recovery eyes have been added down closer to where the extension tube is bolted to the central tube. This puts the pull stresses more in line with the drivetrain and eliminated the cantilevered pulling on the body.... just gets you dirtier hooking up.

First to stay on topic, this is the nicest interior finish I've seen on a pinz.

Also a +1 on what Dave said about the pull point.

About bending metal, metal can bend for a long time under light stress and not take a set, as long as the stress is light. If your lashing down your Pinz for hauling, use common sense and don't over tighten the lashings. As a former flat bed driver the tension needed for securing a load is a lot less than one may think, if your sucking down the suspension by more than an inch your going to cause damage.

The upper winch mount is fine for most winch outs, because when you get stuck it is usually a situation where your winch out point is a higher point than the stuck vehicle, as your stuck in a hole or mud pit. The vehicle is situated lower and so the angle goes with the nose piece going upward at a 15 to 0 degree angle off of a straight pull along the 45 degree nose angle. It's the rare pulls that require a straight to downward pull angle that causes the problems because the pull angle is 45 to 90 degrees off of the nose angle. It does not matter how long or short the pull is, 45 to 90 degree pulls will cause great stress and deformation at the weakest point, it's just a matter of how bad the deformation will be.

I spent a great deal of time pulling my cab back to original specs because of a bad winch out on the nose, so just be careful and think twice before you pull with that winch.

Miles

[VinceAtReal4x4s]

This is sort of beating a dead horse, but I have to bring up the Croatia racing Pinz again. Huge 8274 winch on the front and never a problem, for whatever reason. It surely went through more tough situations that just about any Pinz owner will ever see.

Ok back on topic, thanks for the comment.

[Haf-e]

Wasn't the nose / bumper support reinforced on that Pinzgauer?

[VinceAtReal4x4s]

I added a small bit up the seam, but it had been through hell before I had it.