Massachusetts Insurance

[squaretaper]

We're having a bear of a time finding anyone to underwrite a 712 in MA. Anyone here in Taxachussetts have details of how they've gotten insurance or contact for an agent they'd recommend?

thanks!

[berger]

Try Hagerty.

[squaretaper]

It's my understanding that Hagerty will require garaging- is this not the case?

[westernair]

Yes in a garage was required for me.

[berger]

Yes, me too, but I wouldn't be leaving a 40 year old vehicle outside anyway.

They have other restrictions too, but I would never make a claim for damage sustained on an "unmaintained" road while I was out for a Sunday drive....

[mopar]

I use American Collectors through AAA and have an agreed upon Value and it is registered as an antique so it has to be garaged and used for events repairs and enjoyment not commuting or to get groceries and my mileage is limited but I've never had a problem or a claim with them. They do require Pictures I send them.

[berger]

Hagerty doesn't have mileage requirements, at least mine doesn't. The nice thing about buying from a dealer was that I didn't need an appraisal. The official bill of sale from Pinzgauer Canada was enough.

[David Dunn]

Hagerty does have mileage limits. But the owner can spec the annual mileage. The agent may not have asked, but he had to put something. Check your policy online and you can see what you have. Each of my vehicles are different and I saved when I assigned mileage to each vehicle. IIRC, 2000 miles annually is upper limit, but I have never known them to check.
Typically when they ask for photos, they want one of the vehicle in the garage. They asked me for that on my 1st Pinz and nothing else until the Flying Dump Truck. They did think I could get it into a garage.
Currently Hagerty and Auto Club of So Cal are vying for the coverage of my new 718K. And contrary to what people think, Hagerty not only insures antique and collector cars ( over 25 years old), they also insure specialty and rare vehicles. The FDT and the 718K are examples of that.... but for some reason, they turned down the Supacat. But Auto Club took it on.
How you speak to the agent and the words you use can and will make a big difference in the answer you'll get from any insurance company.
An innocent question/statement can be taken in a bad context and either causing you denied or expensive insurance

[TechMOGogy]

Google Images is the enemy!
I had to call around a LOT...

Them: "No problem sir, Pisgager, sure! I think we have done a few of them before"
Me: "That is great news, what do you need?"
Them: "Let me check, what is the name again?"
Me: "A Pinzgauer pickup"
Them: clicking of keyboard... "Pisgager? How do you spell it?"
Me: "P-I-N-Z-G-A-U-E-R"
Them: click click click... "Whoa that thing is MASSIVE, we don't cover stuff like that! No way!" Click

Took me at least 10 attempts before I found a company similar to Hagerty

[David Dunn]

Dan
I got Steyr added to Auto Club of So Cal back in 2001. I went through the same head ache, but I was given a manager's name that had knowledge of the refusal. We had a 20 minute discussion and comparison of the Pinz, Land Rover, VW buses and Range Rover. It was through visual comparisons, drivetrain power and spec and weight that I got the gentleman to have a better understanding of what a Pinzgauer was and the insurance company's "at risk" through comparable vehicles. 2 weeks later, it was added and saying those 5 letters was all that was needed to insure a Pinz or Haffy( as long as the person could spell Steyr ). As of 2005, from other people across the country, I have not heard of any other AAA in any other state insuring a Pinzgauer directly.

And as a update to my previos post. I've had 2 emails from Hagerty this morning that I asked for a premiums based on 2 different mileages for my 718K.
0 to 500 miles, and the next was 500 to 2500 miles, the difference was only $170. Basically nothing, but my 718 is way newer and rarer than any other Pinzgauer, so the amount is a lot more expensive ( the base amount is 4x what my 712 or 716 were)

[squaretaper]

I was careful to tell each agent that I was insuring a "Austrian pickup" and try and get them to understand that it was essentially a VW bus with a flatbed. (it's a 712-AMB)
After spelling Steyr a dozen times and having agents rush me off the phone one they caught on to what the truck was, I filled out the online app at Hagerty- under storage options I selected "private parking lot" which is where it would be, and was given a quote amount. I'm not sure if that means I'm approved.

[David Dunn]

Well, first off, I doubt your insurance will be approved without being garaged. Private parking lot sounds like a trick question since garaged is a requirement of Hagerty. That was the only stumbling block Hagerty could find with the Flying Dump Truck ( 23k lbs, 24’ long, Air Drop truck). I also call and talk to a person rather than fill in a form. A form is cut and dry, and if it doesn’t automatically fit their normal parameters, it will usually be denied.

It is easier for an insurance company to say no than for the underwriter to research a vehicle. Give them a vehicle that they know and understand as a comparative.
In the US, the most comparable vehicle for them to use is a Land Rover of the same ‘70s era. Land Rovers (109) are roughly of the same size, weight and horsepower ( close enough for the insurance people to understand). Land Rovers and Pinzgauers were used for the same purposes . The Pinzgauer looks like a VW van on steroids . It is not as big as it appears in photos ( it is a lot smaller than American full size vans, and a little larger than an GM Astro van). These are very important, because they know these vehicles and can picture them in their mind.

It is a truck with is the same GVW of ¾ ton American pickup of the ‘70s (7700lbs GVW), Modern ¾ ton pickups are much heavier
It is a utility vehicle that has been adapted for various uses, in this case has a box on it fitted as an ambulance ( there were workshop and command versions)

The truck are officially a Steyr/Daimler/Puch , which most never heard of, so tell them they built the Mercedes Gelandewagen or G Wagon (Jeep).

The agent will need to report to some one else, or an underwriter. All the info will help the agent to convey the info with authority. You want the agent to be positive and your enthusiasm for your vehicle needs to be transferred to them. Think of yourself giving a motivational speech.

NEVER call it 1½ ton truck. ( that instills visions of a large truck… you lose).
Avoid saying military truck, but rather a truck used by the military

[edzz]

I'll second what David is saying, as an addition when my insurance company asked for photos i made sure to include a nicely dressed smiling photo of myself standing with my 710k to provide some concept of size too the viewers. A common comment that I have heard from people that had only seen a Pinzgauer in photos prior to seeing mine in person has been "they look so much bigger in photos".

Search for some of the past discussions regarding insurance, David and others have provided a lot of good information regarding how to interact with the agents and what to say and what not to say.

When I lived in California I found the garage stipulation from AAA ins. very irritating they felt the truck would be better protected in a garage (no mention made of a locking door) in a bad part of Los Angeles than in my secure back yard under cover in a very upscale community, where every police officer in the city knew me and my radio truck from its use in city disaster drills. I went with Farmers ins. as they didn't have this clause.

[berger]

Google Images is the enemy!
I had to call around a LOT...

Them: "No problem sir, Pisgager, sure! I think we have done a few of them before"
Me: "That is great news, what do you need?"
Them: "Let me check, what is the name again?"
Me: "A Pinzgauer pickup"
Them: clicking of keyboard... "Pisgager? How do you spell it?"
Me: "P-I-N-Z-G-A-U-E-R"
Them: click click click... "Whoa that thing is MASSIVE, we don't cover stuff like that! No way!" Click

Took me at least 10 attempts before I found a company similar to Hagerty

Same thing happened when I called CAA (AAA). I know they googled an image and said NO!!!! I spoke to a Manager who I told to google the specs and that the truck was smaller than my Silverado. She consulted a "tech" who said no problem. Tow-Truck guy gets to me, looks at the truck and says "I remember those!" He was stationed in Germany and saw quite a few Pinz's while over there. I asked if would be an issue on his flat bed, and he said "Absolutely no!"

As far as the mileage, I am still not sure, but I dono't have my policy in front of me. I did tell the Agent when I signed up that my plan was to drive to car shows in the US from time to time and that would mean many miles/kilometers. She said not a problem. Of course, Hagerty is meant to allow owners to attend "shows."

[David Dunn]

Ed,
I find the garage requirement very odd for Auto Club, as it was never a condition of their normal insurance policies, but was IF it was put into a antique or collector’s policy. Your agent might have thought that was the only way for a Pinz and never looked or heard of Steyr being in the system. Even up to a couple of years ago I’d get calls from people having problems insuring the Pinz with Auto Club, until they knew the code was Steyr, then knowing how to spell it.

I’ve become an enigma to Auto Club again. I had insured 3 Pinzes and 1 Haffy with them before. 2 Pinzes and the Haffy had VINs that are the ones most people here are familiar with. The 716 had a ISO VIN with the world manufacturer identifier (WMI) VAG. The current 718 has a WMI of SFF. After 4 calls over 4 weeks, I just found out the underwriter (whom is supposedly familiar with Pinzes) wants photos of the truck ( from their people, not my photos). I get the distinct impression they didn’t understand that the SFF was an address change more than anything else.

Berger
Your policy is available online, and iirc, the only place the mileage is listed. With the way you told your agent, she just checked a box for you.
Again, HOW you word things are very important. Hagerty does not cover OFFROADING. But does cover trail drives as part of a group event. Big difference. And pretty much no insurance will cover offroading because of a phrase in most every policy... "due diligence" which basically means you will not put the vehicle in harms way to cause a claim. It is an "out" for them if you do something stupid.