Trailered pinz in mini accident

audiocontr · Post by **audiocontr** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:52 pm

It was bound to happen. As a novice tower, i had a great weekend, 7 straight hours of towing the 712 with no issues besides a little bucking.

This morning I load on the 710 and head to the shop only to collide with a young man in an intersection. The truck simply would not stop fast enough and T-boned someone who decided to make a left hand turn as I was coming.

The ford front end is messed up and the trailer wound up breaking all 4 welds in the back as the momentum of the 710 moved forward. Luckily it did not break and the truck stayed put.

I'll load some photos eventually.

I do have a question on my mounting points. I ran straps through the triangle that David Dunn suggested in his post. (just forward of the wheels, where the body mounts to the drive train, is a "triangle" that Dave hooked his chains to. I ran my straps through the triangle and back) Although i cant see anything moved laterally back, the accident did crush the triangle where the straps wrapped around it. Its pretty slight crush, but noticable.

I'm wondering if its a big deal with a pinz where i need to place a claim, or something pretty minor. I'm guessing the later.

4x4Pinz · Post by **4x4Pinz** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:10 pm

Pics would help with damage report.

Do yourself a favor and get yourself some of these. Put them on the axles at the coupler at all four locations (just be carefull not to capture the brake lines when wrapping the axles).
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... sku=150094

The best thing is they won't leave marks on the truck like chains or cables.

audiocontr · Post by **audiocontr** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:12 pm

also keep in mind comprehensive with geico does not cover damage to the trailer... i cant seem to find anyone to provide comprehensive on a 16' car tote

audiocontr · Post by **audiocontr** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:20 pm

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/wz ... directlink

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/w0 ... directlink

and the damage to the welds on the trailer... looking at $350 to fix.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Pl ... directlink

4x4Pinz · Post by **4x4Pinz** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:44 pm

trailer does not look too bad. At least minimal damage to it. Have a close look at the trailer coupler and the hitch point on your truck. How bad was the truck damaged? I run my trailer brake controller pretty far up so the trailer does a lot more stopping than one would think. The trailer brakes are cheaper than my fords brake pads.

audiocontr · Post by **audiocontr** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:15 pm

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/7Q ... directlink

not horrible. Popped the radiator

David Dunn · Post by **David Dunn** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:37 pm

I don't see any damage to the outriggers from the pics, but I do not like the 'shallow' angles of the straps. They allow for too much fore/aft movement of the Pinz. The angle should be at least 45 degree to hold the rig firm. From the pic, I also question the strength of build on the trailer ( or the impact of the accident is much more than you lead us to believe).
I'm with 4x4Pinz on setting the trailer brake crontroller up. You should be able to noticeably slow the truck and trailer manually using the trailer brakes only.

audiocontr · Post by **audiocontr** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:51 pm

David, i think you're dead on with the trailer strength. They mounted the D rings at the absolute rear of the trailer. Right at the ends. I was mounted there. The angle would have been more than 45 degrees. What you see now is where i re-attached the straps after the accident for transport. The welds are what broke and notice the rust..

Yup, I have a digital brake controller. I think i'd rather have a slider but i lowered it when i was just pulling the trailer (after the successful 712 pull might i add!). It was way too low. Lesson learned.

Take a look at the damage to the truck. Looks like i blew out the brakes when i stomped on them (Picture someone making a left hand turn across the intersection at the last moment). I'd guess the sheer mass of both trucks is what cause the damage... then again, i should be over cautious at all intersections in metro areas.

David Dunn · Post by **David Dunn** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:12 pm

Audiocontr,
I am real good figuring geometric stresses and bracing ( considering I was never trained in it

). I tend to lean onto the overkill side of things for safety. Just from the little I see of the trailer in the pics, the structure and bracing looks marginal for the weight of a Pinz ( especially when you throw in the dynamics of a "sudden stop"). I have customers that pick up glass from me at time, and when they load it into their vehicle, I stress to them to load with the glass as far forward and locked in place, as much as possible. All of them reply that they aren't going far and will drive safely... I answer back that it is the "other" guy that worries me, and they will be the ones forcing the bad manouver and the accident.... realilty lamp clicks on

Erik712m · Post by **Erik712m** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:28 pm

I wonder how much of the triangle damage if u want to call it that. Is from the springs compressing at the time of impact and returning. Would think the axle would be the way to secure.

audiocontr · Post by **audiocontr** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:54 pm

Eric, i'll need to leave that to all of the much smarter folks on the board to answer. I reviewed posts in the past and followed suggestions from Dave Dunn on mounting points. His post was something along the lines of the uncompressed springs of the pinz can cause negative effects. Dont want to cause any battle of intellect here, so again, you all will have to tell me the best way =)

David Dunn · Post by **David Dunn** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:29 pm

There will always be debates on compressing the suspension vs. securing the axles. I am of the opinion that an uncompressed suspension can cause a trailer to " bounce" , and the harmonics of the trailered vehicles' suspension can bounce with the trailer's suspension and cause the trailer to "leap frog" when the two suspensions eventually bounce "out of phase", and the trailer will bounce out of control. There is a good video of a Mog on a trailer and the two suspensions are working against themself.

When compressing the suspension, the trailered vehicle and trailer act as a single unit.....NOW , if you go 1/2 a$$ on compressing the suspension and straping it down, everything can come loose (might as well leave the straps off in the first place, so it come off the trailer at a slower speed and do less damage

). .... too many times I've seen people do things half way and "thought" it was good enough, and had something go wrong.

In the case of flatbed tow trucks that secure by the axles and not the suspensions, the truck generally weighs in the neighborhood of 18000 lbs and 3k to 5k vehicles won't have much effect on them... but a 4000 lb Pinz can definitely pull on a 1800 lb trailer. This also why you use a heavier tow vehicle .... weight does make a difference.

It's up to each person to decide which method they like best, and DO IT RIGHT, because "it's good enough" may get someone killed.

David Dunn · Post by **David Dunn** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:36 pm

Erik712m wrote:I wonder how much of the triangle damage if u want to call it that. Is from the springs compressing at the time of impact and returning. Would think the axle would be the way to secure.

BTW Erik
Inertia of an uncompress vehicle would exert an extra hammering blow after the impact to cause extra ‘whiplash’ action to pound the trailer forward