High Capacity Alternator -- Wanted

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rmel
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High Capacity Alternator -- Wanted

Post by rmel » Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:29 pm

Looking for a high capacity Pinz (gaser) Alternator, preferably 50A.
Or a "reasonable" core I can get rebuilt to higher capacity.

Got too damn much Electrical crap sucking the life out of the one I have :(

EI used to have a 40A Alternator, PM me if there's anything out there of interest.
Puller: 71' 710K 2.7L EFI aka Mozo
Follower: Sankey MK 3, 3/4 Tonne
Rescue Pinz: 73' 712M

Driver: Ron // KO0Q

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GadgetPhreak
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Re: High Capacity Alternator -- Wanted

Post by GadgetPhreak » Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:58 pm

I'm in the same boat.


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King County Search & Rescue | Regional Special Vehicles Unit
1972 710M - Building up for SAR use
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Hotzenplotz
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Re: High Capacity Alternator -- Wanted

Post by Hotzenplotz » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:45 am

After an alternator failure I installed this unit

http://www.1a-anlasser.de/Lichtmaschine ... :1159.html

it has 40 amps, and has an integrated regulator

for higher output I suggest you add a second alternator and install a dedicated utility circuit.

Gut in Switzerland offers such solutions

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Albert
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My Pinz has NEVER been with any army

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rmel
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Re: High Capacity Alternator -- Wanted

Post by rmel » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:17 am

Ya, I saw your posting on this bracket/Alternator before.

Unfortunately I already have a compressor hanging off my
system for A/C, custom pulley and two belts :wink: No room.

I do know that there is at least one shop in the LA area that can
rebuild the stock Pinz Alternator to output 45+ Amps. I'd send
my off but that would be a few weeks of down time :cry: Thus
the hunt for a core that I can get rebuilt or one high capacity out
of the box. Might be wishful thinking on my part :?
Puller: 71' 710K 2.7L EFI aka Mozo
Follower: Sankey MK 3, 3/4 Tonne
Rescue Pinz: 73' 712M

Driver: Ron // KO0Q

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GadgetPhreak
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Re: High Capacity Alternator -- Wanted

Post by GadgetPhreak » Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:58 pm

Can you post the details of the shop in LA that does rebuilds? I'm pretty certain I'm going to need to upgrade mine soon. I haven't run all the numbers yet but expect that I'm going to be exceeding capacity..
King County Search & Rescue | Regional Special Vehicles Unit
1972 710M - Building up for SAR use
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Haf-e
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Re: High Capacity Alternator -- Wanted

Post by Haf-e » Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:02 pm

I wonder if the single fan belt will be able to handle the load of the higher amperage alternator and the fan? Seems like a lot for a single v belt.
Haf-e

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Re: High Capacity Alternator -- Wanted

Post by Jimm391730 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:06 pm

I wonder if the single fan belt will be able to handle the load of the higher amperage alternator and the fan?
The fan probably takes many times more power than the alternator; the stock alternator is 30A which is barely a single horsepower. Double that, we are still talking about only 2HP. The fan probably requires that or more just to move air.

I am not convinced that I've ever seen ANY application that requires a heavier alternator. Not that a heavier/rewound alternator is a bad thing, just that I can't even imagine a need for more power. Worst case driving, at night, might draw 2-300 watts (lights, fan, ignition). That is not even 11A draw from the 30A rated alternator. How many watts off road lights do you plan to run continuously? Winches draw a lot of power, but only intermittently; they don't count (the batteries will be recharged soon enough once winching is done). What else would you have that mandates a larger alternator? This seems like a solution in search of a problem...
Jim M.
712W and 710M

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TechMOGogy
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Re: High Capacity Alternator -- Wanted

Post by TechMOGogy » Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:32 pm

Clearly you have not see his build thread ;)
72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 96 350GDT Worker

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Re: High Capacity Alternator -- Wanted

Post by pinzinator » Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:15 pm

Years ago Jim LaGuardia told me he knew of a shop that could rebuild an alternator to put out more power. Contact him.

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rmel
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Re: High Capacity Alternator -- Wanted

Post by rmel » Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:06 pm

Yup, it's Jim L that knows who this re builder is.

So, you wanna know why I h\need more Juice Jim :wink: Well, you got the 24V load down pat, but then I have
4 (I repeat) 4, Yellow tops for the 12V goodies. EFI, Ham gear, Nav, Sound, and a Booster to keep the radios humming
at a constant 13.6V input. The Yeller's are charged off of a 24V to 12V REDARC charger, 40A output so about 20A
additional load on the Alternator. With sunny days (a rare scene up here in the Bay Area these days) my 200W Siemens
panels keep me alive. The Alternator I currently have is 40A but getting cranky. I did find a local shop that is great at
rebuilds, typically a day or two turnaround but not capable of a rewind to higher capacity. I just had them rebuild my
old broken stock Pinz starter -- they did a great job.

ron
Puller: 71' 710K 2.7L EFI aka Mozo
Follower: Sankey MK 3, 3/4 Tonne
Rescue Pinz: 73' 712M

Driver: Ron // KO0Q

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edzz
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Re: High Capacity Alternator -- Wanted

Post by edzz » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:13 pm

Would a ~720 watt alternator be sufficient for your power demands?

73
Ed
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

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rmel
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Re: High Capacity Alternator -- Wanted

Post by rmel » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:01 am

My current 40A Alternator should be in the ballpark of 960W, of course that's at a decent RPM.
What I was hoping to find is something in the 45+Amp range just to have a bit more output at
idle. That's when things tend to get a bit bogged down and dicey. It's more of a winter problem
with batteries not getting capped off as regular when I'm running a bit more regular.
Puller: 71' 710K 2.7L EFI aka Mozo
Follower: Sankey MK 3, 3/4 Tonne
Rescue Pinz: 73' 712M

Driver: Ron // KO0Q

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Jimm391730
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Re: High Capacity Alternator -- Wanted

Post by Jimm391730 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:06 am

...knew of a shop that could rebuild a [stock] alternator to put out more power.
The drawback to rewinding a stock alternator is that it cannot put out as much voltage at idle, so the battery may not get charged at idle but the alternator can put out more current than stock once at rpms higher than idle. I do not know exactly what the output is for stock, nor the exact output for the rebuilt (at differing rpms) so I won't say that a rebuilt for higher current won't charge at idle. But the physical trade-offs require fewer turns of a larger wire - the larger wire gives more current output, but the reduction in turns means that more revs are needed for the same voltage. Both are needed to charge the batteries, especially at idle.

On the other hand, the stock Pinz alternator can only be the size it is to fit within the housing resulting in the trade-offs above. Once you go to an external, secondary alternator then you can go as physically large as desired and get both higher currents and enough current/voltage at idle, too.

At one time I had 75W headlights, 70W driving lights, 70W fog lights (all 24V halogens, and two lights each), plus six (6) 50W floodlights (two on each side, plus two at the rear). These totaled 730 watts, plus ignition current and running lights (not much for either). Even though just the lights add up to 87% of the 30A specified alternator, it STILL had enough "omph" to keep the batteries up to proper voltage, at idle, with every one turned on. I didn't do this but for testing purposes as I had no need to run them all, especially continuously.

Your REDARC 24 to 12V charger won't draw 20A continuously. Honestly I would expect that all your equipment you listed probably won't draw more than 10A at 12V (equivalent to 5A at 24V) on average. Peak power doesn't count; average power (average current) is what is important. For example, NO alternator can be expected to keep up with the current draw from a winch, but the winch's average current draw during the course of even a day is likely be be only a few amps (a minute's worth of hard pull every hour?) average.

On the other hand, I have two 100AHr batteries to run the box of my truck (similar to your Yellow Tops, perhaps not as big in capacity but somewhat close) and I ran them down deeply camping one week. I plugged them into the Pinz charging circuit and it took over 3 hours of driving to bring all the batteries back up to 28V! Yes, a larger rated alternator would have done this faster.

So that's why I have not ever seen the stock alternator as insufficient. I'm not saying that you should not change it; I, too, would be interested in what you come up with and how it works. My point was just that my wildest imagination never thought that the stock alternator would be undersized (assuming it is working as it should!). But if yours is not working well then it does make sense to me to "improve" upon it, since it needs fixing anyway.
Jim M.
712W and 710M

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rmel
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Re: High Capacity Alternator -- Wanted

Post by rmel » Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:32 pm

Similar to your situation, when I run down the 4 Yellow tops, ~11V
(engine off no charging no Sun for the panels) THEN when I start, the
REDARC will go through it's charging cycles and at least for 1 hour it's
chugging full load. It doesn't happen frequently but far more so this time
of year with limited to no help from the Solar panels.

Good point on wire gauge vs turns. I have not taken one of these Alt's
apart to see what margin there is to not loose too many turns. At this
point, now that I found a "quick turn Gen/Alt shop" I plan on pulling this
Alt, getting it re-conditioned with new bearing and get the Diodes tested
while it's out.
Puller: 71' 710K 2.7L EFI aka Mozo
Follower: Sankey MK 3, 3/4 Tonne
Rescue Pinz: 73' 712M

Driver: Ron // KO0Q

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Re: High Capacity Alternator -- Wanted

Post by Jimm391730 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:28 pm

And remember that an alternator is best considered a current source; if you overload it, the voltage falls (generally this reduces the amps as the voltage is reduced) so it tends to self regulate. It is very difficult to "overload" an alternator to failure when it is in good shape. So the occasional high draws (like my 3+ hours of recharging) are usually not detrimental. My alternator has been rebuilt, but I believe it was brought back to "stock" condition, it was not "improved"; but it is NOT a 40+ year old component (replaced with the rebuilt alternator in '03). This may be why it is not giving me any problems.
Jim M.
712W and 710M

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