It seems that there are tons of unexplained "gremlins" that go along with owning a Pinzgauer. I've logged hundreds of miles driving three different 710M's over the past three years and all I can say is these things have some strange patterns of running funny. Sometimes, the problems fix themselves or go as soon as they appear.
Here are some of my personal experiences with the unexplained:
-A bad running one that suddenly "fixes" itself only after a HUGE backfire.
-One that sputters and dies only while going uphill. (Once every 20th trip.)
-One that sputters and runs poorly only after long descents. Then clears itself up only after driving on flat ground for several miles.
-How about those difficult warm restarts? They start great when cold and barely at all when warm!
-Brakes that squeek only when wet... ...or dusty... or dry?!!!
Please tell me some stories of YOUR experiences with "gremlins" in Pinzgauers. Otherwise, I do believe that I'm going nuts!
Pinzgauer mystery ailments: List yours!
Moderator: TechMOGogy
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Twin Pinzies
- Posts: 545
- Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:33 pm
- Location: San Juan Mountains, CO
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lindenengineering
- Posts: 715
- Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:14 pm
- Location: Golden Colorado USA
- Contact:
Sorry to be a bit terse but my experience of gremlins usually start at the body sat behind the seat doing DIY.
If some folks would'nt try to reinvent the "Pinzgauer wheel" with cheapy substitutions, home made remedies AND leave the lid down, (one of my guys says it should be welded shut) alot of gremlins would stay away.
Again sorry to be so frank this evening.
Best regards to all
Dennis
If some folks would'nt try to reinvent the "Pinzgauer wheel" with cheapy substitutions, home made remedies AND leave the lid down, (one of my guys says it should be welded shut) alot of gremlins would stay away.
Again sorry to be so frank this evening.
Best regards to all
Dennis
OOOps no customer bashing now
@ Dennis,
No need to apologize. You're absolutely right!
Most of the symptoms described come from bad carburator adjustment, or in need to be tuned/cleaned, fuel hoses to be checked/replaced, gasoline tank to be cleaned/overhauled, 30 year old electrical connectors and false timing. One need to remember that most of these vehicules have more then 30 years of age and a little bit of TLC does wonder on them.
We recently had a person here in Europe that experienced bad performance, sputtering and loss of power. He drove home and tore all his engine apart (down to the crankshaft), to slowly rebuild it. He seated the valves again, adjusted them, ...etc. He performed a real good job. When he test drove it afterwards it had made no difference. He then spend some time on the ignition, but couldn't find anything. The carburators had been cleaned and rebuild by himself so he figured the problem couldn't be there. After several frustrating days (all 10 of them) he looked again at the ignition and noticed a screw that barely was visible that was loose which caused the timing to change as he was driving and especially when the Pinz was sputtering. He fixed that and went out again on a test drive and the Pinz was still doing the same. So he checked the coil and noticed it had only 11,000 ohm and he replaced it with one that had a least the necessary 16,000 ohm. It made the Pinz drive a bit better but not yet the way it needed to be. Another 10 days later he finally went back to checking his carburators and noticed that a tiny debris was lodged in there. It was one of those that had come loose when he rebuild his carburators. After removing it, the Pinz drove like a charm..
What is the end result of this long story.
Folks, a Pinzgauer is a fine tuned machine that works perfectly well - but like any complex machine it needs a bit of TLC and common sense. Everybody can check and replace rubber hoses and electrical connectors. To really fine tune a carburator please go to a specialist - it might be a bit more expensive but on the long haul it will be cheaper as you will have no frustration or break down, no loss of time and most important a perfectly running Pinz. Remember that the carburators change one form of energy into another form of energy, bad tunning = bad results. None of you invest in bad market shares or do you?
Now, that is my personal idea.
Best Regards,
Jacques
No need to apologize. You're absolutely right!
Most of the symptoms described come from bad carburator adjustment, or in need to be tuned/cleaned, fuel hoses to be checked/replaced, gasoline tank to be cleaned/overhauled, 30 year old electrical connectors and false timing. One need to remember that most of these vehicules have more then 30 years of age and a little bit of TLC does wonder on them.
We recently had a person here in Europe that experienced bad performance, sputtering and loss of power. He drove home and tore all his engine apart (down to the crankshaft), to slowly rebuild it. He seated the valves again, adjusted them, ...etc. He performed a real good job. When he test drove it afterwards it had made no difference. He then spend some time on the ignition, but couldn't find anything. The carburators had been cleaned and rebuild by himself so he figured the problem couldn't be there. After several frustrating days (all 10 of them) he looked again at the ignition and noticed a screw that barely was visible that was loose which caused the timing to change as he was driving and especially when the Pinz was sputtering. He fixed that and went out again on a test drive and the Pinz was still doing the same. So he checked the coil and noticed it had only 11,000 ohm and he replaced it with one that had a least the necessary 16,000 ohm. It made the Pinz drive a bit better but not yet the way it needed to be. Another 10 days later he finally went back to checking his carburators and noticed that a tiny debris was lodged in there. It was one of those that had come loose when he rebuild his carburators. After removing it, the Pinz drove like a charm..
What is the end result of this long story.
Folks, a Pinzgauer is a fine tuned machine that works perfectly well - but like any complex machine it needs a bit of TLC and common sense. Everybody can check and replace rubber hoses and electrical connectors. To really fine tune a carburator please go to a specialist - it might be a bit more expensive but on the long haul it will be cheaper as you will have no frustration or break down, no loss of time and most important a perfectly running Pinz. Remember that the carburators change one form of energy into another form of energy, bad tunning = bad results. None of you invest in bad market shares or do you?
Now, that is my personal idea.
Best Regards,
Jacques
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lindenengineering
- Posts: 715
- Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:14 pm
- Location: Golden Colorado USA
- Contact:
Jacques, couldn't agree more!
The other day Sonny Jim calls me concerning a miss-fire or dead cylinder. A frustarated tone on the phone, I can't find it, I am going to tear the engine down. What tools do I need?
If it runs ok sometimes then I doubt it's mechanical I replied, the guy reluctantly brings the truck into the shop with a "lung out". A quick hit with a heat gun confirms number 1 cylinder is not firing. I lift the plug wire at the plug end confirms no spark. Lift the wire at the diz end, install a new wire as a quick test and bingo running like a champ; albeit with clouds of smoke as it burns off all the pumped out oil/fuel in the exhaust manifold.
Let's have a quick look at this 30 year old wire.
Ah ha, who put electrical insulating tape under the end ferrule to insulate the wire? I enquired.
"OH I did that last summer" the owner retorts.
Look insulating tape won't keep those spark gremlins in in the wire. The high tension will find its way out. I explained. You need a new wire as you can see.
How much? Got any used ones? I can't afford that!
Well its cheaper than ripping an engine down down no reason! I replied.
I have to say what is it with Pinz owners? Why does the cost of ownership be such a problem. I know you can get em cheap in the first place but parts are to mil spec and priced in Euros when they leave the plant. Using factory parts with ensure the truck works when you ask it to.
We see lots of repair scenarios in our shop, some are cheap to fix others wildly expensive. Since we fix Audi/Volks units in the north side of the shop, the price of parts can mortify the owner. Landrovers are sometimes the same. Frankly, it's the cost of ownership: something that should be researched before buying in the first place.
Remember a quote from Charles Dickens and Mr McCawber.
Income 20 shillings, expenditure 19 & six happiness.
Income 20 shillings. expenditure 21 shillings-- Misery.
Ok that will be $120 for new wire and install/diagnosis. $60 for a good used wire. OK, do you do credit? No, I am not a banker, just a mechanic.
Out comes the plastic to reduce the pain. Truck leaves the shop purring like a Swiss kitten. Owner not too happy having probably to explain to the missus where the sixty bucks went out of the family budget.
Oh the joys of running a repair facility!
Dennis
The other day Sonny Jim calls me concerning a miss-fire or dead cylinder. A frustarated tone on the phone, I can't find it, I am going to tear the engine down. What tools do I need?
If it runs ok sometimes then I doubt it's mechanical I replied, the guy reluctantly brings the truck into the shop with a "lung out". A quick hit with a heat gun confirms number 1 cylinder is not firing. I lift the plug wire at the plug end confirms no spark. Lift the wire at the diz end, install a new wire as a quick test and bingo running like a champ; albeit with clouds of smoke as it burns off all the pumped out oil/fuel in the exhaust manifold.
Let's have a quick look at this 30 year old wire.
Ah ha, who put electrical insulating tape under the end ferrule to insulate the wire? I enquired.
"OH I did that last summer" the owner retorts.
Look insulating tape won't keep those spark gremlins in in the wire. The high tension will find its way out. I explained. You need a new wire as you can see.
How much? Got any used ones? I can't afford that!
Well its cheaper than ripping an engine down down no reason! I replied.
I have to say what is it with Pinz owners? Why does the cost of ownership be such a problem. I know you can get em cheap in the first place but parts are to mil spec and priced in Euros when they leave the plant. Using factory parts with ensure the truck works when you ask it to.
We see lots of repair scenarios in our shop, some are cheap to fix others wildly expensive. Since we fix Audi/Volks units in the north side of the shop, the price of parts can mortify the owner. Landrovers are sometimes the same. Frankly, it's the cost of ownership: something that should be researched before buying in the first place.
Remember a quote from Charles Dickens and Mr McCawber.
Income 20 shillings, expenditure 19 & six happiness.
Income 20 shillings. expenditure 21 shillings-- Misery.
Ok that will be $120 for new wire and install/diagnosis. $60 for a good used wire. OK, do you do credit? No, I am not a banker, just a mechanic.
Out comes the plastic to reduce the pain. Truck leaves the shop purring like a Swiss kitten. Owner not too happy having probably to explain to the missus where the sixty bucks went out of the family budget.
Oh the joys of running a repair facility!
Dennis
OOOps no customer bashing now
Again @ Dennis => You're right!
As for ANDY - I can only compliment you on your WISE decision to have an expert look at your carburators. You will be enjoying your Pinz for quite a while. Lots of little ailments are being discussed here and all of them are only issues due to a lack of care, lack of TLC and lack of willing to go the extra time/money to have it fixed correctly. Guys, those trucks are 30 years old and many of them with little mileage and you want to drive them close from full speed on the interstate and do some offroading with it. This is great and the truck is designed for that. But even with little mileage time, heat and weather has taken a bit of its toll out of the trucks. The large plug on the side of the distributor, on top of the engine can give problems, spark plug wires do the same, the coil needs to give enough ohms, eart, earth, earth wire needs to be checked (many postings about that) a rubber hose that connects both carburators needs to be replaced, same diameter hose that comes from a heater hose to the carburator needs to be replaced, same diameter hose that goes to the vacuum brakes needs to be replaced, fuel hose, ..... etc, the list is long - but it all is an easy fix. After offroading, take the wind channel around the carburators off and check for dirt, look at the aircooling fins of the engine and keep the clean, the alternator needs a good rebuild same for the starter, .... etc the list is long but a lot can be done by yourselves, except for a few things that you really should go to a good mechanic - that is no wasted money. The bottom end of the engine is build to last 200,000 miles -it has a crankshaft that diesel engines normally have - that is why one gets all the torque at low rpm - contrary to a normal gasoline engine - the upper end of the engine needs a good overhaul now and then but can last up to 100,000 miles, except for the push rods - those needs to be checked regularly, otherwise, the Pinzgauer with a bit of TLC is the: " crème de la crème" as an offroad vehicule,
Best Regards,
Jacques
As for ANDY - I can only compliment you on your WISE decision to have an expert look at your carburators. You will be enjoying your Pinz for quite a while. Lots of little ailments are being discussed here and all of them are only issues due to a lack of care, lack of TLC and lack of willing to go the extra time/money to have it fixed correctly. Guys, those trucks are 30 years old and many of them with little mileage and you want to drive them close from full speed on the interstate and do some offroading with it. This is great and the truck is designed for that. But even with little mileage time, heat and weather has taken a bit of its toll out of the trucks. The large plug on the side of the distributor, on top of the engine can give problems, spark plug wires do the same, the coil needs to give enough ohms, eart, earth, earth wire needs to be checked (many postings about that) a rubber hose that connects both carburators needs to be replaced, same diameter hose that comes from a heater hose to the carburator needs to be replaced, same diameter hose that goes to the vacuum brakes needs to be replaced, fuel hose, ..... etc, the list is long - but it all is an easy fix. After offroading, take the wind channel around the carburators off and check for dirt, look at the aircooling fins of the engine and keep the clean, the alternator needs a good rebuild same for the starter, .... etc the list is long but a lot can be done by yourselves, except for a few things that you really should go to a good mechanic - that is no wasted money. The bottom end of the engine is build to last 200,000 miles -it has a crankshaft that diesel engines normally have - that is why one gets all the torque at low rpm - contrary to a normal gasoline engine - the upper end of the engine needs a good overhaul now and then but can last up to 100,000 miles, except for the push rods - those needs to be checked regularly, otherwise, the Pinzgauer with a bit of TLC is the: " crème de la crème" as an offroad vehicule,
Best Regards,
Jacques
Dennis....considering what I would expect to pay for a diagnostics session at a dealership, sounds to me that you gave him the used wire for free. He should have thanked you for the freebie.
Now that doesn't mean I still don't complain about some of the pricing of parts.
For the most part I buy from the US suppliers. But for the really expensive items I wait for a deal and buy before I need the part.
I will say I have quite the inventory built up, with several thousand dollars invested just in parts, parts that are getting harder and more expensive to find. The smart Pinz owner that wants to keep their Pinz running on OEM parts had better realize that the parts will not allways be there at resonable costs. And yes there will come a time when we will all have to decide wether to pony up for the real deal or get the chinese knockoff of the week.
Miles
Now that doesn't mean I still don't complain about some of the pricing of parts.
For the most part I buy from the US suppliers. But for the really expensive items I wait for a deal and buy before I need the part. I will say I have quite the inventory built up, with several thousand dollars invested just in parts, parts that are getting harder and more expensive to find. The smart Pinz owner that wants to keep their Pinz running on OEM parts had better realize that the parts will not allways be there at resonable costs. And yes there will come a time when we will all have to decide wether to pony up for the real deal or get the chinese knockoff of the week.
Miles
Lots of Pinz pictures here.......
http://picasaweb.google.com/pinzgauer.depository.1
'73 Pinzgauer 712M
http://picasaweb.google.com/pinzgauer.depository.1
'73 Pinzgauer 712M
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David Dunn
- Posts: 2279
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 7:08 pm
- Location: Arcadia, CA
This is exactly what I told a buyer for my project Haf, not less than a month ago, when I "bad mouthed" NAS Haffies. When ask what was wrong with them, I responded ' nothing with the vehicles, but the owners. Most of them will take any shortcut anywhere they can'.
But for gremlins in my Pinz, it rattles, belches black smoke, and has green blood... and if any of them weren't there, I'd be concerned!
Dave Dunn
.
The Trojan Horse... the 1st Pinz used to covertly carry troops into battle .
ATL Pinzgauer XM 718K TUM(HD) 6x6 FFR (aka The Green Grail)
The Trojan Horse... the 1st Pinz used to covertly carry troops into battle .
ATL Pinzgauer XM 718K TUM(HD) 6x6 FFR (aka The Green Grail)
Jacques, only wise enough to know that I do not know how to do it properly and not want to have to pay extra to fix something that would not have been seriously broken if I would kept my fingers out of it.
At on point I had to sit through something where they taught "stages of competence." The first stage is unconscious incompetence. The second is concious incompetence. Even though I am unconciously competent (the fourth stage) in many things, when it comes to mechanics and my Pinz I know that I am stuck at stage two for the forseeable future.
But, thank you anyway for the compliment.
Repectfully,
Andy
At on point I had to sit through something where they taught "stages of competence." The first stage is unconscious incompetence. The second is concious incompetence. Even though I am unconciously competent (the fourth stage) in many things, when it comes to mechanics and my Pinz I know that I am stuck at stage two for the forseeable future.
But, thank you anyway for the compliment.
Repectfully,
Andy
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undysworld
- Posts: 1776
- Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:08 am
- Location: Blue Mounds, WI
I always figure that part of knowing how to fix my things is also knowing (hopefully) the things I DON'T know about. And then knowing enough to get help for those things.
As far as gremlins go, mine is a turn signal indicator lamp that lights up intermittently. The outside signals still work though, so I don't worry too much. It just seems like whenever I try to fix it, it's working!
As far as gremlins go, mine is a turn signal indicator lamp that lights up intermittently. The outside signals still work though, so I don't worry too much. It just seems like whenever I try to fix it, it's working!
The only gremlin I have is a small hole in the bottom of the petrol tank that I CAN'T find!
Well at least, thats what I figure the problem is, as the fuel keeps dissappearing very quickly!
Well at least, thats what I figure the problem is, as the fuel keeps dissappearing very quickly!
Peter
1974, 712 6X6 Pinzgauer
1983, 710-1.6 4X4 Pinzgauer
1997, 718 6X6 Pinzgauer (in pieces)
1971, 700 Haflinger
1974, 703 LWB Haflinger
2001, Range Rover
http://www.ozpinz.com
1974, 712 6X6 Pinzgauer
1983, 710-1.6 4X4 Pinzgauer
1997, 718 6X6 Pinzgauer (in pieces)
1971, 700 Haflinger
1974, 703 LWB Haflinger
2001, Range Rover
http://www.ozpinz.com
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Ultimate4x4
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 11:59 pm
- Location: Houston, Texas
- Contact:
I guess I have to jump in on this one, considering I have Andy's truck in my shop!...
I am the one at stage two of Andy's concern...and considering that Dennis has helped me many, many times on becoming knowledgeable, but far from an expert I need to thank you for your comments.
Knowing when you know something and knowing when you don't are the fundamental keys to succes...I think.
I am still learning everyday.
Now, the real test is, can I get Andy's rig back to him in a timely fasion, working properly...and under budget?
Let's see what happens.
Best regards,
Robert Crow
I am the one at stage two of Andy's concern...and considering that Dennis has helped me many, many times on becoming knowledgeable, but far from an expert I need to thank you for your comments.
Knowing when you know something and knowing when you don't are the fundamental keys to succes...I think.
I am still learning everyday.
Now, the real test is, can I get Andy's rig back to him in a timely fasion, working properly...and under budget?
Let's see what happens.
Best regards,
Robert Crow
Robert Crow
Ultimate 4x4's of Texas
Phone: 713-898-6510
Email: robert@ultimate4x4.com
Web: www.ultimate4x4.com
Ultimate 4x4's of Texas
Phone: 713-898-6510
Email: robert@ultimate4x4.com
Web: www.ultimate4x4.com
Well guys,
I think that this topic is a very interesting subject that hopefully will help a lot of people. As for the "gremlins" I think that David Dunn has summarized it perfectly.
But this is quite understandable. Most of the time the Pinzgauer is the 3rd, 4th or 5th car in a household and has mainly been purchased as a "fun car". But this vehicule that sits in the driveway, is considered ugly and is labeled by the wife as a vehicule of absolutely no utility is in fact probably the most reliable car that will ever have, if maintained well. Why :?: - well no electronics. I just had an invoice for my Mercedes S 500 4Matic that has barely 60,000 miles and needed a new antitheft box that is located with the shifter and is connected to the electronic key: cost 850 Euros. Quite strange - here is a part that is not subjected to any stress and goes bad in as little as 4 years on a car that initailly did cost 107,000 Euros (with all the options). For such an expense your wife will never complain as she loves to drive around in the Mercedes.
So - the budget that you have is limited by the appreciation that your wife has for the Pinzgauer and its use. Simply use common sense and spend now and then a few hours on your car and check for bad connectors, loose connections, old hoses, dirt, ....etc. As you go along, you will soon notice that it is in fact quite easy to work on a Pinzgauer and that it doesn't take a lot for a normal person to do a lot of good things (TLC) for your baby. If you have a Cherokee, or a WV Touareg, or a Mercedes ML, or a Porsche Cayenne, or a Lexus offroad vehicule and you will test drive it in the dirt, wouldn't you go ahead an thorougly clean your car afterwards - well YES - so simply do the same on the Pinzgauer. Checking and cleaning the brakes is not a big deal - but it takes time and hence saves money on the long run. The engine is aircooled - so after a "treffen" make sure to check them and clean the cooling fins. Would you drive with a motorcycle and have nothing but mud/dirt hanging on your engine rendering the cooling fins useless. I know it takes a while to disassemble some parts but often with a mirror you can have a glance and see if you need to do it or not. Oil changes are easy, air and fuel filter are easy. Timing and points - well depending if you feel comfortable doing it - otherwise carburators, top end of the engine, like valve rods (need to be checked more often as it is an aircooled engine and they could be bend) would be better to have checked with a good mechanic. You guys have good a few of them here in the Forum and they are all willing to help - even give free advise here on the board. Go and see them and have them perform the right work on your Pinz - you will afterwards love both of them, the Pinz and the mechanic.
What Miles is saying is unfortunately true!
Gosh @ Peter you're so right!
The rock bottom is this:
Common sense - a bit of spare time - preventive maintenance - professional advise and maintenance - and this very helpfull Forum with all the knowledgeable people that are so freely willing to give some good advise.
I wish you all some happy trekking with your Pinzgauer as they are indeed some asthonishing vehicles that are fun to drive.
Best regards
Jacques
I think that this topic is a very interesting subject that hopefully will help a lot of people. As for the "gremlins" I think that David Dunn has summarized it perfectly.
In fact the biggest "gremlin" is the owner and the cause of it is his "wallet".I responded ' nothing with the vehicles, but the owners. Most of them will take any shortcut anywhere they can'.
But this is quite understandable. Most of the time the Pinzgauer is the 3rd, 4th or 5th car in a household and has mainly been purchased as a "fun car". But this vehicule that sits in the driveway, is considered ugly and is labeled by the wife as a vehicule of absolutely no utility is in fact probably the most reliable car that will ever have, if maintained well. Why :?: - well no electronics. I just had an invoice for my Mercedes S 500 4Matic that has barely 60,000 miles and needed a new antitheft box that is located with the shifter and is connected to the electronic key: cost 850 Euros. Quite strange - here is a part that is not subjected to any stress and goes bad in as little as 4 years on a car that initailly did cost 107,000 Euros (with all the options). For such an expense your wife will never complain as she loves to drive around in the Mercedes.
So - the budget that you have is limited by the appreciation that your wife has for the Pinzgauer and its use. Simply use common sense and spend now and then a few hours on your car and check for bad connectors, loose connections, old hoses, dirt, ....etc. As you go along, you will soon notice that it is in fact quite easy to work on a Pinzgauer and that it doesn't take a lot for a normal person to do a lot of good things (TLC) for your baby. If you have a Cherokee, or a WV Touareg, or a Mercedes ML, or a Porsche Cayenne, or a Lexus offroad vehicule and you will test drive it in the dirt, wouldn't you go ahead an thorougly clean your car afterwards - well YES - so simply do the same on the Pinzgauer. Checking and cleaning the brakes is not a big deal - but it takes time and hence saves money on the long run. The engine is aircooled - so after a "treffen" make sure to check them and clean the cooling fins. Would you drive with a motorcycle and have nothing but mud/dirt hanging on your engine rendering the cooling fins useless. I know it takes a while to disassemble some parts but often with a mirror you can have a glance and see if you need to do it or not. Oil changes are easy, air and fuel filter are easy. Timing and points - well depending if you feel comfortable doing it - otherwise carburators, top end of the engine, like valve rods (need to be checked more often as it is an aircooled engine and they could be bend) would be better to have checked with a good mechanic. You guys have good a few of them here in the Forum and they are all willing to help - even give free advise here on the board. Go and see them and have them perform the right work on your Pinz - you will afterwards love both of them, the Pinz and the mechanic.
What Miles is saying is unfortunately true!
Here we have some advantages - as we don't have shipping costs and import costs. I myself purchased another Pinzgauer from the Swiss army and drove it home which now represents my spare part inventory. I am even considering to buy one more, as the last 70 Pinzgauer owned by the Swiss army are now being sold (not at an auction!) They are all 712 SAN model - unfortunately for you they are all from the late 70's and early 80's. I know you will have a problem getting them on the street but they can be a good spare part inventory. Group yourself together and split the cost and have one available for parts (my suggestion).The smart Pinz owner that wants to keep their Pinz running on OEM parts had better realize that the parts will not allways be there at resonable costs.
Gosh @ Peter you're so right!
Especially here in Europe. We're now paying close from $6.8/gallon and would have to pay even more if the Euro wasn't that strong against the Dollar when we purchase oil barrels (quoted in US Dollars).The only gremlin I have is a small hole in the bottom of the petrol tank that I CAN'T find!
The rock bottom is this:
Common sense - a bit of spare time - preventive maintenance - professional advise and maintenance - and this very helpfull Forum with all the knowledgeable people that are so freely willing to give some good advise.
I wish you all some happy trekking with your Pinzgauer as they are indeed some asthonishing vehicles that are fun to drive.
Best regards
Jacques
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lindenengineering
- Posts: 715
- Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:14 pm
- Location: Golden Colorado USA
- Contact:
Actually guys I might have been abit hard on you all.
Lets face it motor vehicles with internal combustion engines are extremely complex and getting more so by the day. Even thirty year old obsolete bent iron can throw us Pro's a curve ball. That's where modern computer controlled vehicles have the edge, they can tell you what the problem is.
Finding and fixing the fault(s) however are the issues. Without expensive test kit and training on the system(s) involved they become almost impossible to fix.
Here's a typical scenario for a shop.
Sweet nice looking lady brings her Volks Jetta diesel in for an oil change. Oh new customer. Recommended!
Vehicle is left on the forecourt for the mechanic to put it on the rack.
A couple of minutes later mechanic returns----I can't start this--F--thing---It's dead. We go out sure enough no life.---Get a F jump box---Inject some F power to the battery----Car comes to life---PTA--Put car on the rack---- change oil/filter----try to start ----dead. PTA ---OK test battery and charging system.--PTA . Whose gonna pay for all this crap! & Rack time goes through my head!
Battery power down--- 50% of new. On goes a battery $135.--- Still no real power cranking--PTA--- gotta have shorts somewhere. PTA ----open up engine covers start tracing for bad grounds---lack of continuity----Bad grounds--high resistances----Better clean the F lot & remake all the connections.
Is it done yet I enquire, Well its running, comes the reply---but all the engine lights are on so is SRS and the ABS is winking at me!
Get the lap top-- get scanning,---- the computer screen tells of lack of batt' power, records of battery disconnection etc. OK lets wipe the DTC's clean and test the car several cycles later and trips up the street. Car finally behaves itself. Phew!
No whose paying for all this little lot?????.Not to mention all the backed up shop traffic.
Let's see, Battery $135, labor 4 hours $360, scan charge $65. Total $526 plus tax.
Little lady returns. Expecting a $35 oil change she sees $561---What F did you do to my car? I am not paying for this ---- This car was running perfectly before you F-----morons got your hands on it!!! I am going to call the cops. You lot are thieves! I am going to sue you lot, when I am finished with you lot you won't be fixing innocent peoples' cars like me.
This is an honest shop's worst nightmare. Basically the car had been neglected---Not badly--Simply not had all the recommended service intervals done to save money.
The good thing for me was that this car belongs to my missus who bought it from a dealer friend who likes to buy at the dealer auctions. She played the innocent nice lady customer in the shop to roll play the scenarios that often occur. This happened today and I hope will illustrate what it is like to take in a modern car like a Volkswagen that is VERY touchy about continuity, good grounds, and voltage parameters. Those gremlins mentioned on this forum about the humble Pinzgauer engine and the chassis body are very benign.
Have a good week end and happy Treffening this coming week with the RMP in Cripple Creek.
Dennis
Lets face it motor vehicles with internal combustion engines are extremely complex and getting more so by the day. Even thirty year old obsolete bent iron can throw us Pro's a curve ball. That's where modern computer controlled vehicles have the edge, they can tell you what the problem is.
Finding and fixing the fault(s) however are the issues. Without expensive test kit and training on the system(s) involved they become almost impossible to fix.
Here's a typical scenario for a shop.
Sweet nice looking lady brings her Volks Jetta diesel in for an oil change. Oh new customer. Recommended!
Vehicle is left on the forecourt for the mechanic to put it on the rack.
A couple of minutes later mechanic returns----I can't start this--F--thing---It's dead. We go out sure enough no life.---Get a F jump box---Inject some F power to the battery----Car comes to life---PTA--Put car on the rack---- change oil/filter----try to start ----dead. PTA ---OK test battery and charging system.--PTA . Whose gonna pay for all this crap! & Rack time goes through my head!
Battery power down--- 50% of new. On goes a battery $135.--- Still no real power cranking--PTA--- gotta have shorts somewhere. PTA ----open up engine covers start tracing for bad grounds---lack of continuity----Bad grounds--high resistances----Better clean the F lot & remake all the connections.
Is it done yet I enquire, Well its running, comes the reply---but all the engine lights are on so is SRS and the ABS is winking at me!
Get the lap top-- get scanning,---- the computer screen tells of lack of batt' power, records of battery disconnection etc. OK lets wipe the DTC's clean and test the car several cycles later and trips up the street. Car finally behaves itself. Phew!
No whose paying for all this little lot?????.Not to mention all the backed up shop traffic.
Let's see, Battery $135, labor 4 hours $360, scan charge $65. Total $526 plus tax.
Little lady returns. Expecting a $35 oil change she sees $561---What F did you do to my car? I am not paying for this ---- This car was running perfectly before you F-----morons got your hands on it!!! I am going to call the cops. You lot are thieves! I am going to sue you lot, when I am finished with you lot you won't be fixing innocent peoples' cars like me.
This is an honest shop's worst nightmare. Basically the car had been neglected---Not badly--Simply not had all the recommended service intervals done to save money.
The good thing for me was that this car belongs to my missus who bought it from a dealer friend who likes to buy at the dealer auctions. She played the innocent nice lady customer in the shop to roll play the scenarios that often occur. This happened today and I hope will illustrate what it is like to take in a modern car like a Volkswagen that is VERY touchy about continuity, good grounds, and voltage parameters. Those gremlins mentioned on this forum about the humble Pinzgauer engine and the chassis body are very benign.
Have a good week end and happy Treffening this coming week with the RMP in Cripple Creek.
Dennis
OOOps no customer bashing now