Pinzgauer mystery ailments: List yours!

andy · Post by **andy** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 9:36 pm

Part of the manufacturing jobs leaving, at least in this case, was brought on by themselves. They were telling me that I needed to order like 40,000 bags at a time. Hey I'm not Purina. I don't even have storage for that many bags never mind the money to buy them and pay freight.

I'm not sure if I justified it to myself or rationalized it, but I'm not happy with the decision I had to make.

EuroPinz · Post by **EuroPinz** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:07 am

ANDY is right - none of the postings in here are directed to anyone personally!
As far as Pinzgauer knowledge - everybody has reached a certain level, others are learning as they go along and for certain repairs I personaly think (since I do it also) people should be seeking professional advise. Only experience, endurance and common sense will get us to the end result that we're seeking. As for electronic cars being easier to serviced - I seriously have my doubts - or maybe the competence of my Mercedes shop is over rated!!!!! Remember in one of my earlier posts I mentioned that the antitheft device/box located in or around the gear shifter need to be replaced - which is what the diagnostic of the Mercedes shop said. Cost for that was around 850 Euros including parts, labor and diagnostic. Well, I also asked them to perform the big overhaul (Mercedes overhaul "B") for the vehicule since it had 60,000 miles on it. They replaced 16 spare plugs (I didn't even know that the Mercedes V8 engine had 2 plugs per cylinder??

) change the brake disks on the front + pads, had to change a few parts on the steering, ...etc (I am astonished after 60,000 miles

) ....etc. So when I went to get my car on friday I had a bill totaling 2,936 Euros (what a joy

). went home and parked the car in the garage. The next day morning, the wife wants to take the car and it will not start

: I go and get the spare key, since the shop wanted both keys, maybe the other one would work. No luck - nothing happened - the car wouldn't start. Called the shop, they wouldn't be able to come until monday to pull it out of my garage. And I am ¢&%#@ç* mad at them! However, the good thing is that the wife took one the Pinzgauer to go shopping since the daughter needed the other Mercedes. As she left she's telling me: " I know this one will work since you're doing the maintenance on it!" I knew then I had earned a few points and that until next time I need to spend money on the Pinzgauers she will say nothing.

Best regards,

Jacques

lindenengineering · Post by **lindenengineering** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:00 am

Jacques
Now were are REALLY talking about gremlins.
When dealing with modern cars just the merest interogation of the electronic sytstems can activate a hidden mode like security locking & immobilization.

We see this often but have yet to have a pissed customer with a dead car in the driveway. BUT it will occur someday I am sure.
Last week wew dealt with an Audi Allroad with air suspension problems. The first scan taking three hours following the computer prompts didn't show and serious faults and a "clear" brought the thing to life. Talking to the customer I said "Go try it and see if the fault will come back". That way it will save you money on diagnosis time I thought.
The next day I get an irate call and a pissed caller. Getting the car back in we scan again and discover an Intermittent fault, these are the hardest to find by the way.
We order a new level sensor, car is off the road three days and it takes us another two hours to install and re-program. Customer is still irritated price, downtime, and delivery schedule.
In this business it's hard to keep a customer happy sometimes.
Dennis

EuroPinz · Post by **EuroPinz** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:27 am

lindenengineering wrote: Now were are REALLY talking about gremlins.
When dealing with modern cars just the merest interogation of the electronic sytstems can activate a hidden mode like security locking & immobilization.

You're absolutely right Dennis - Luckily for me, both my Pinzgauer's scored some points with my wife - until such day when I need to have something done by a mechanic on them. Well so far I only have a shop check my carburators about once a year or every 20,000 Km which ever comes first. Luckily for me I can do all the rest - probably not as quickly as you guys can do it - but I am managing. However the electronic stuff is a bit more difficult for me as I don't have any of the electronic diagnostic tools.
I am contemplating in investing in a fuel injection for the Pinz by selling my 1975 and keep my 1983 Pinz but I can only find such system in the US and I have to admit that I know as much from an electronic injection as you would probably know a few words of our local language. "luxemburgish". This will be a challenge for me - but nothing that I cannot learn as I go along with it.
Why a fuel injection? Well we're right now paying something like $ 6.8/gallon (95 octane - we have nothing less then that) and that's with having a strong Euro compared to the Dollar. Oil barrels are quoted in Dollars so we kind of get a good price. But what will happen once the Euro drops back down to 1 Euro = 1 Dollar - gosh our gasoline price will raise by 35 %/gallon.
By the way - they will get the Benz fixed - it's just a question of time for them to find the "intermittent gremlin"

Best regards,

Jacques

andy · Post by **andy** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:28 am

Jacques, my computer conversion of euros to usd says 2936 eros = 4,057.64 USD. And I thought the local Ford dealer had stuck it to me when I had to pay 1100 usd and change for a new front hub and some universals.

That in itself is a very strong inducement to learn how to do some of these things on my own. The irritating thing for me, especially on my work vehicles is the lost time while it is in the shop. I suspect that, and being inconvenienced, are some other reasons some of Dennis' customers might be slightly upset.

It is a pleasure to read your posts Jacques. Here's hoping you have a nice day.

Andy

EuroPinz · Post by **EuroPinz** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:55 am

Andy wrote:Jacques, my computer conversion of euros to usd says 2936 eros = 4,057.64 USD.

@ Andy,

That is indeed the correct USD amount. Some people buy a second hand car for that price. The electronic part was only 850 Euros including labor and diagnostic - the rest were stuff that needed to be done after 60,000 miles and often trips in Germany with no speed limits on the interstates which took a heavy toll out of the front brakes.

However, my wife did not mind spending that much money on the Benz but I would certainly end up in the dog house if I had simply said:"Honey, I just wired $ 4,000 to the US to buy a fuel injection system for the Pinzgauer!" This is another ball game

So I have decided to sell the 1975 Pinz 712 in order to finance the fuel injection for the 1982 Pinz 712 and maybe a few other lovely things that I would love to have on my newer Pinz.

@ Andy and @ All of you - It is also a pleasure for me to read all of your posts - it's like having sometimes found a shoulder to cry on and more often a place to seek professional advise - which is generously given in this forum .... and I have to admit, the German Pinzgauer forum as well.

Best Regards to all of you,

Jacques

andy · Post by **andy** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:37 am

Jacques, wives can be so narrow minded sometimes about guy stuff.

Cheers......Andy

lindenengineering · Post by **lindenengineering** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:06 am

Guys
I got off the point about cheap components that I was really trying to make.

Recently though, I though it prudent giving you all an insight into dealer and independant repair shop "challenges".
I think the latest pricing info by Jacques in Luxumburg shows that the American public get a deal on shop charges when comparing it to the shop rates that are customary in the EEC.
Even when taking currency differentials and costs of living into account the Euro folk are doling out more cash for services.
In the UK its normal for a reasonable mechanic to be paid at least 25,000 quid a year and top guys in excess of 35,000 for a 40 hour week. I am not including overtime and incentive/bonus increments.
The pound sterling is currently worth about two bucks so the math is easy.
I really want to express my thoughts about this Chinese and similar cheapo junk that is finding its way into all sorts of reputable components that are destroying expected life cycles.
Dennis

EuroPinz · Post by **EuroPinz** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:11 am

Denis,

Your customers should be happy to pay the charges that are asked in the USA.
Shop charges in Luxemburg are: 65 Euros per hour on mechanical repairs, every 31 minutes rounded upward to the full hour and electronic repairs/diagnostics are charged 100 euros per hour, every 31 minutes rounded upward to the full hour. Well, these are the charges at a Mercedes dealership in Luxemburg - Germany is a bit cheaper and of course charges on other brandname cars, like Renault, Fiat, Volkswagen, ...etc are about 20 % cheaper.
I had a few months ago following repairs done to a Mercedes E320 station wagon. Complete rear brakes redone which was: new brake disks, new brake shoes, new brake pads, new brake hoses, brake hydraulic, ESP diagnostic and labor - cost was 1,492 Euros. Car was delivered to the shop at 07:30 am and returned to me 12:30 pm (5 hours later).
The bosch spark plugs that you use on your Pinzgauer cost about 25 Euros a piece here, that is about $ 135 for all 4 of them. And of course ... don't forget what gets our Pinzgauer going, GASOLINE $ 6.80/gallon and that's in Luxemburg, the EEC country where gasoline is the cheapest!

Regards,

Jacques

75pinz · Post by **75pinz** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:08 am

I got my pinz running right I think. I may not be the sharpest guy around but I think I solved most of my problems last night. It had about an inch of crud in the bottom of the tank and also bits of like tar paper or something. The liner appears fine except for right at the filler neck which was the only part I could see. I was contemplating settting the damn thing on fire and all it needed was a little love...I also adjusted the carbs again and have a smooth idle now and good power with the new ignition from Scott...

andy · Post by **andy** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:58 pm

I think there are some dealers/repair shops already on the European pricing system as well as taking advantage of 2nd rate parts.

But you all are right, we are terribly spoiled.

Andy

lindenengineering · Post by **lindenengineering** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:26 pm

Jacques.
Thanks for the pricing guide.

Our shop rates are $65 for RMP members (Pinzgauer) and Ural/Enfield motor cycles. 10% discount on pinz parts where possible. Otherwise $75

All other stuff (like LR's & Volks/Audis between $85 & $90/hour.
Diesel work is $100.
Big truck APU installs are between $55 to $75/hr. So are Webasto installs at the same tariff.

Fuel costs as we all know affect prices as a whole. Generally American's pay significantly less for food etc than my family do in the UK.
You can eat very well in the USA. On the whole the food quality is exceptional. Meat is a bargain. Fresh fruit is everywhere, and you can even get fresh fish in the middle of Denver, caught yesterday!

The same goes for eating out. My brother and his wife came over for Christmas (last) and a 5 course steak and game dinner with a good bottle(s)of Calif wine came to $210 for four. This was at a top attraction "designer" restaurant called the Fort (Fort.com). Yes the place where Pres Clinton entertained the G8 world leaders a few years ago.

The exception is health care and legal fees. Wicked rip off pricing for even the most simplest of treatments. You need a wickedly expensive insurance to cover all the health risks that you might encounter over your life span.
About 45% of us have no real coverage like the Euro systems.
To give you an example a youngster in Colorado got bitten by a rattle snake recently and his anti venom injections were $10,000 per shot. Indecent, immoral in fact. Sadly we over here will complain bitterly about auto shop fees and the like but not about health care costs. The real base cost of that antivenom is about $176 depending upon sourcing.
Anyway I have got off the subject and my soap box and I really want to expound my experiences on rogue parts disguised as high quality replacements. These are plagueing the industry over here.
More to follow
Dennis

andy · Post by **andy** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:43 pm

Dennis, you will probably get to it in the next post, but if you could offer some suggestions as to what to look for it might help. Not everything I've gotten from NAPA or Wal Mart has a label of origin nor does it tell where components might be from.

pinzinator · Post by **pinzinator** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:22 pm

I've had 3 Pinzgauer 710Ms over the past 8 years, and none of them ever failed me. Am I the only one who can make this claim? I think they are quite trouble free if you let them alone and keep them a Pinzgauer as designed, not something else. Of course anything can fail, the Challenger was the ultimate proof of that fact. When you make unnecesary modifications to increase horsepower, you usually lower the dependability and raise the cost of ownership, the latter is important for all the cheapskates out there. I focus on maintenance, such as gear oil changes and flushing of the hydraulics, along with filters and oil changes. I always install Pertronix, but keep the rest of the ignition stock, and use OEM Steyr parts on other maintenance (shop around, prices vary dealer to dealer). Don't try to make your Pinzgauer into a rock climber or a Chevy Blazer, unless you have the money to burn, and don't whine when it breaks or catches fire due to your Tom Slick mentality. And for Chrissakes don't go out and beat the vehicle like it's a Sherman tank, the Pinzgauer is a troop transporter, nothing more. I agree completely with what Dennis has to say about all of this, he has worked on Pinzgauers more than all of use combined (leave out Jim and the Professor on that calculation), so I think he has a clue.

NC_Mog · Post by **NC_Mog** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:32 pm

pinzinator wrote:I've had 3 Pinzgauer 710Ms over the past 8 years, and none of them ever failed me. Am I the only one who can make this claim? I think they are quite trouble free if you let them alone and keep them a Pinzgauer as designed, not something else. Of course anything can fail, the Challenger was the ultimate proof of that fact. When you make unnecesary modifications to increase horsepower, you usually lower the dependability and raise the cost of ownership, the latter is important for all the cheapskates out there. I focus on maintenance, such as gear oil changes and flushing of the hydraulics, along with filters and oil changes. I always install Pertronix, but keep the rest of the ignition stock, and use OEM Steyr parts on other maintenance (shop around, prices vary dealer to dealer). Don't try to make your Pinzgauer into a rock climber or a Chevy Blazer, unless you have the money to burn, and don't whine when it breaks or catches fire due to your Tom Slick mentality. And for Chrissakes don't go out and beat the vehicle like it's a Sherman tank, the Pinzgauer is a troop transporter, nothing more. I agree completely with what Dennis has to say about all of this, he has worked on Pinzgauers more than all of use combined (leave out Jim and the Professor on that calculation), so I think he has a clue.

The same is true for me. On my 3rd Pinz and they have been very reliable. I stay stock except for the Pertronix, and I use OEM parts from Pinz parts vendors.