So why isn't it a diesel?

[texas pinzgauer]

Amongst the questions I'm asked frequently is why does the Pinzgauer have a gasoline engine and not a diesel? Seems like it shoud be a diesel, doesn't it?

So why is that?

[David Dunn]

The proper subject line should read," why wasn't the Pinzgauer diesel?"

The Pinzgauer was originally designed and built for the Swiss military, per their specifications, which included an air cooled gas engine and portals. Over 1/3 of the total gas Pinzgauers made were for the Swiss .
Since most all of the armies of the world were converting to diesel during the '60s' the Pinz wasn't very marketable to most countries in any quantities. By the end of the 70's, SDP knew a diesel powered Pinzgauer was needed , along with a long list of modern updates. The VW 2.4TD was considered the best choice ( I know Mercedes had several good diesel then, but this was SDP choice, plus they wanted the VW contract to make the Syncos for VW... one hand washes the other ). Since this diesel leaned the opposite way than the gas engine, this was a good time to make additional updates to the tranny/t case, wheelbase, the track and brakes, among other items.

The simple answer is the Swiss were pretty much footing the design and production bill, and wanted an air cooled gas engine, and that's what they got.

[texas pinzgauer]

I hoped that the "Club Historian" (AKA Dave Dunn) would step up with a solid answer!

That all makes sense Dave but wouldn't a small air cooled diesel from Deutz have handled this application? Did they not make an engine small enough for this application at the time? Just curious AND I want to have my story straight for my next Q+ A session.

Thanks,

David

[GenevaPinz]

To add to David's comment, I guess the Swiss Army brass could not conceive, back in the late 60's, that a light vehicle could use anything other than gasoline...

The vehicles replaced or supplemented by the Pinz in the Swiss Army all used gasoline (M38 Jeeps, Dodge WCs, Unimogs S404, etc...), and even the main battle tank of the Swiss Army at this time (the british-made Centurion) used gasoline. Add to this the fact that the 1973 Oil Crisis was still to come, so gasoline was very cheap, and I guess it made sense to order the 710s / 712s like we know them today...

Out of curiosity, did a western army commission a diesel-powered light vehicle at the same period? The ones that I can think of are all gasoline-powered.

Jan

[ScottishPinz]

The British army took until the 1990's to start replacing its petrol vehicles with diesel. In the 1970's everything was petrol... motorbikes, landrovers, trucks, tanks, even big stuff ran on the B series Rolls Royce petrol engines. I have an ex-army camp stove and guess what, it runs on petrol!

The 101 landrover which did the same roles as the Pinzgauer was a V8 petrol. Like the pinz this vehicle was a general service truck, ambulance, radio command truck and light gun tractor.

Nowadays it is the opposite with diesel being the fuel of choice, so even the motorbikes and camp stoves run on diesel today. Makes sense as diesel technology has come on in leaps and bounds + it doesn't explode as easily as petrol!

My car is diesel. In the 1980s I would never have guessed a diesel car would find a place on my driveway.[/quote]

[David Dunn]

David
People complaint how loud the gas Pinz is, air cooled diesel are a bunch louder. Technology has changed a lot in 40 years, and the ability to make lighter and less costly diesel engines has come about, especially in the last 15 years.
The primary change to diesel were in tactical and support vehicles ( aka main battle tanks and their support, and other "heavy" transports ). 5/4 Tons and below were still typically gas engine . The Unimog 404 has been the only gas powered Unimog ( but not the first Unimog). Even the first G Wagons were gas (1979ish). The switch to diesel on light vehicles has been slow... the first Supacats in the '80s had Citroen gas engine, before going to the 1.6D and eventually the 1.9TDI.

[Erik712m]

I have never heard an air cooled diesel. Someday I hope to!

There are things I have missed do to my age and location. I wish I could have seen. I sure hope those who outlaw items keep this in mind.

[VinceAtReal4x4s]

Amongst the questions I'm asked frequently is why does the Pinzgauer have a gasoline engine and not a diesel? Seems like it shoud be a diesel, doesn't it?

So why is that?

Outside of other reasons that may apply, very simply, diesel engines weren't practically advanced enough at the time to power the Pinz.

[Dreadnought]

Alongside of all the other Logistical reasons for Gasoline/petrol power, I,m with Vince in thinking that there just was NOT a light diesel of sufficient power in Europe at least, at the time the Pinzgauer was conceived...I am great enthusiast for early Mercedes Diesel cars, having owned two in the early to mid seventies, engineering wise they were superb, with amazing longevity and comparatively good economy, but they were slooooow, even the 240D and 300D were slugs on the road, I had a 57, 190D its 0-60MPH was measured in weeks not seconds. Here in UK, Landrover owners were quick to discover the advantages of an early Perkins engine of up to 3Ltrs capacity, but those advantages were stump pulling (or half shaft breaking if you were not careful) torque and better economy, the downside was that they were very slow revvers, (on a Landrover with no overdrive..35MPH flat out) For Erik, I used to be a trucker and owned a Ford Cargo 24 Tonner, with a Deutz Air cooled V6 of 9.7Litres capacity she made 208 BHP (or PS) and the guys in the workshop all used to swear that she sounded just like a Detroit Diesel 2 Stroke. (there are some vids of Magirus trucks with Deutz air cooled diesels on you tube) I dont think Deutz ever did a small enough air cooled engine for the Pinzgauer. So logistics and 'there was no such Diesel beast at the time' gave the Pinz its own unique gasoline engine.

[texas pinzgauer]

Erik,

How could you have missed seeing one of these at a local tractor pull? You're in the middle of farm country I thought. Talk about a sheltered life!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u7FfamvbjQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65j6qN8kW3Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylrUhEdz ... re=related

David

[Erik712m]

I went to the tractor pul at the state fair this year. I don't remember any Deutz. But than again I may have not known what I was looking at. Lots of Case, Internationals, and John Deer. Some really old gas ones but I don't remember what make.

Sure would have thought I'd remember seeing plumes of black smoke!

[Dreadnought]

Here are a couple of interesting ones, a V12 version of my V6, it was way too wide an engine for a Pinz...Might look out for one for my Mog (that would be interesting???) and also a smaller 3 cylinder FL3 (I wonder what the output for the 3 cyl was?. I believe they were all modular engines using the same cylinders, valve gear and heads all interchangeable one engine to another. They also had another interesting trait, as I found to my cost when I needed a new alternator...£400 odd and that was 20 years ago!!!! when I asked why? the guy said, these are specially made for Deutz engines, they all run backwards. (I got one from a V8 Deutz in a scrapyard for £10!!! lucky eh?) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hpWlGt1tvA and the 3 cyl: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXsyhzX4bzE

[Erik712m]

Well, I have an Aircooled diesel I was asking the guys this morning if they recalled a aircooled diesel at the tractor pull? Jason noted no but you have one in your generator. Looks like I bought one awhile back for the home when the power goes out.