Starter grinding

[norcal pinz]

I installed a new starter when i was rebuilding and it grinds about 30% of the time .....
could it be the wrong starter from a Mog ? how do i find out what the problem is ???????

[bernhard]

I had that exact problem on my K when I purchased it. It ended up being the wrong starter off a MOG. Unfortunately it also striped the gear off the flywheel so I had to replace that as well. The two starters look almost identical but there is a way to tell the difference(not sure what it is). Jim at goatwerks diagnosed the problem and sold me a starter. Make sure the ring gear is not damaged and that the Bendix is working.

[norcal pinz]

when i bought the K it came with a spare starter brand new so when i was rebuilding my 710M i installed it if anyone can tell me what to look for i will take it out and inspect it ...thanks

[Jim LaGuardia]

First, it should in most cases have 1.3hp stamped on it. If it is stamped 1hp it is more than likely a Mog starter, the nose is 1/2" shorter give or take.

[ExpeditionImports]

Hi Guys,

Wish it were as simple as X is right, y is wrong. Unfortunately, there is a lot more to the story.

Most Pinzgauer vendors, including some selling parts directly to the swiss military realized early on that the Unimog starter is a VERY close fit to the Pinzguaer starter. So close in fact that it is not uncommon for us to find them installed on trucks coming straight from the swiss military. I am quite sure it comes down to a sourcing issue..... if I have it in the repair depot and it works Most of the time, install it. From an aftermarket parts perspective, most customers go into shock when they hear the price of the original Pinzgauer starter....about 300% higher than the mog starter.

The most important consideration between the two is how far does the pinion engage the flywheel ring gear? The difference is approximately 1/8" inch. This is usually not enough less engagement of the ring gear to cause a problem. However if your ring gear is marginal, then it can create problems.

The pinions between the 2 starters are the identical Bosch part number. What makes the difference in terms of depth of engagement is the starter nose, nose shim/bushing, Solenoid arm throw, and the starter rubber mount. Recently an additional factor has come to light and that is an aftermarket pinion that was apparently also used in the military rebuild process. The only way to I would venture to say of the people having problems with the mog starters on the Pinzgauer 90% of those problems will be based upon an already chewed up flywheel ring gear, and or a destroyed starter mount.

The starter mount is what centers your starter and allows some "give" in terms of alignment. When it starts to give up, your starter pinion will not be engaging the flywheel at a 90 degree angle. Unfortunately, this mount is a RUBBER part that sits below the fuel pump/oil filter housing area. Quite often they are saturated with oil and fuel, and most of the time they are 30-40 years old. Steyr realized they had a design issue and in later trucks added a "keeper" across the top of the mount. If installed it is less likely you will see starter mount problems. If not, you need to be watching this item very closely.

Attached are some pics showing what I am talking about. I'll also continue the post below with some suggestions.

[ExpeditionImports]

In addition, it is crucial to verify that your pinion is being fully engaged...their is an adjustment on your solenoid arm, if not adjusted properly the pinion will not reach full through.

So what to do? In my OPINION if your existing starter can be repaired with a solenoid or pinion, then do the repair. Be careful with this though as I have found numerous customers spending more on a "rebuild" with a rebuild shop than on the cost of a new starter.

Up until the release of the gear reduction starters I would have told you that if your starter mount and ring gear are in good condition, install the mog starter and be done with it. There are well over 600 of those starters running around with no problems here in the states alone. However, due to the fact that there is a better solution on the market TODAY, I would know tell you to either repair your existing starter, or install a gear reduction starter that has been engineered for the pinz and is 100% correct on pinion engagement.

Attached is a pic of a mog starter we pulled from a pinz yesterday. The rubber mount was in pretty poor shape, but it had a good ring gear and no starter engagement issues. However, in my opinion the amount of engagement that you can see on this pinion is not acceptable.

All food for thought.

Cheers,

Scott Ingham

[edzz]

Scott and Jim, what is your opinion of replacing the rubber starter mount with a solid mount?
Thanks Ed

[spandit]

Watching this with interest as I've installed a solid mount. I don't understand why, despite the reasons Jim stated above, SDP seem to be the only people who rubber mount their starter motors.

[Twin Pinzies]

Are both mounting bolts tight? Mine did that and then I realized that they had loosened. Problem solved.

[norcal pinz]

where can i get the "keeper" piece in the photo is there a part number for that ?

[spandit]

09-01-08.1, I think. Where you'd get one, I don't know...

[norcal pinz]

Im just going to buy this :http://www.expedition-imports.com/produ ... --24V.html
and a new rubber backplate

[Buzz]

I did buy EI's gear reduction starter and what an improvement! I have owned my Pinz for ten years and even after many attempts at tweaking the solenoid I could never get the grinding to go away. The new starter is perfect. No grinding. Just perfect and quick starts like you would expect from any modern vehicle. This has been some of the best money I have ever spent on my truck. and it shiny too!

[edzz]

and it shiny too!

They make a fix for that
http://www.krylon.com/products/camoufla ... echnology/

[norcal pinz]

http://www.expedition-imports.com/produ ... --24V.html
Yeah i love my new starter what a difference !