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Quote "Hey. Global warming is a compelling theory with no substantial evidence to support it."
Geez man, with all due respect, don't you folks out there read anything?
I would say the evidence is down right compelling, theory or not! At least you get to share the air and the road with the rest of us as we barrel down the road to change. It's the growth that is optional.

It is the weak minded that buy the hype without demanding the facts to support it.

I honor your opinion but I love the facts of science.

Before man was a factor there was a land bridge to this continent, it dissapeared as the climate warmed......................................
So who do you blame? I look at climate change as a natural process, when volcanos erupt they can spew "greenhouse gasses", but if the eruptions spew enough ash into the upper atmosphere it can also cause "global cooling", effecting world temperatures for up to 4 years.
That is a scientific fact.
While man may play a part, the sun spot cycle and other naturally occouring geological events also are major contributors.
One other Item is not everyone can afford to buy a new car, and many never can or do

Hello

This is becoming like "picture-postcard politic'n". The only fact that we have is that there is a climate change. We don't really know why. The human element is the only logical choice because it's the most significant change that we have been aware of, but a lot has happened before us and we cannot explain it with any certainty. Pointing fingers and making laws may make others feel better, but we don't really know if it will have any effect or, if it does, for how long. Maybe the process is non-reversable. Due to our collective ignoance, one could say there will be an ice age in fifty years. The passion is similar to the passion felt over religion and the actions taken will, most, likely be similar to the crusades or the inquisition. But, let us not forget, we are still doomed.

Eric P

Gee, I think I will go drive my Pinz...

Gee, I think I will go drive my Pinz...

ice age in fifty years

Me, I'm hanging out for that "ice-age"....should make a nice change from all our heat!

Hey...think of the silver lining...

Look how many people will have new waterfront property!

(...like...say...Colorado...)

Jim LaGuardia wrote:Before man was a factor there was a land bridge to this continent, it dissapeared as the climate warmed......................................
So who do you blame? I look at climate change as a natural process, when volcanos erupt they can spew "greenhouse gasses", but if the eruptions spew enough ash into the upper atmosphere it can also cause "global cooling", effecting world temperatures for up to 4 years.
That is a scientific fact.
While man may play a part, the sun spot cycle and other naturally occouring geological events also are major contributors.
One other Item is not everyone can afford to buy a new car, and many never can or do

So the land bridge melted without our cars doing it... so that means that car exhaust is not poisonous? O.K., The next time my car is running in the garage, I'll remember to breath deeply!!!

Interesting discussion. I didn't realize there was so much green in the pinz community---considering how much smoke comes out of a pinz at start up compared to my diesel pickup.
I have an article of an interview with Sen. James Inhofe ( Chairman of the Environment & Public Works Committee). He quotes testimony by Dr Daniel Schrag of Harvard, who by the way believes that manmade emissions are driving global warming. Quote " The Kyoto Protocal is not the right approach to take. It will have almost no impact on the climate even if all the nations fully complied." He added that currently 13 of the 15 EU nations are failing to meet the requirements of Kyoto.
Another note on the article. Paleoclimate researcher Bob Carter of Australia's James Cook U., who has had over 100 papers published in scientific journals notes that " There is huge uncertainty in every aspect of climate change."
"If you look at ice core records, you will discover that yes, changes in carbon dioxide are accompanied by changes in temperature, but you will also discover that the change in temperature PRECEDES the change in carbon dioxide by several hundred years to a thousand or so years."
Reflect on that.
And reflect on the last time you heard someone say that they thought lung cancer causes smoking.
"Couldism, mightism, and perhapsism, fueled by computer modeling."
You could add media hype to that quote.
I think that we as humans think we are mighty big to affect something as grand as the climate.
Another note. I have a degree in Environmental Science, but I don't know crap about crap! I did work in the field for a number of years and I saw and heard a LOT of crap. Scare tactics are a wonderful tool for getting attention----That's how the terrorists are going to rule the world-and not just the one's with turbans.

FWIW

john

Humans have only been acuately monitoring and recording the temperature for the last hundred years or so; What's a hundred years in the grand scheme of things? It's like trying to decide if the tide is coming in our going out by monitoring each and every wave; you just can't tell from just a few waves.

My perspective is that it is not what humans do, but how many of us there are doing it... yup, just too many of us.

Jim M.
712W and 710M

"Better get your Pinz now while they, and gas, are still around"

Well this is a thought provoking thread!

Gents didn't realize so many sit on one side of the fence and some the other.

One thing is for certain we have alot of "Greenies" on this forum and that bodes well for the survival of the Pinz in these coming and changing times.

I am going to post some thoughts & observations in the general chat section but before I do that I want to relate the fact that keeping your Pinz in good tune including E compliance actually saves you money.

To emphasise the point I had a customer bring me a rough running Pinz yesterday. This morning I fired it up to diagnose no "fire" on #3 cylinder.
Taking a look at the plugs revealed the insulators had disintegrated. We did a tune up on the rig. Putting the truck on the E analyser revealed VERY HIGH CO at idle (off the clock past 10%).
The "mystery" became clearer. The dense mixture at idle had a tendency to "cold soak" the hot plug tip insulators resulting in ultimate cracking of the porcelain. A simple adjustment of the carbuteretor idle mixture screws (1.5 turns in) brought the idle mixture to a steady 3,05% CO and a very steady idle and response. Nice.

The bill came to $280 odd bucks. That including the gratis charge for analysing the exhaust gases. I concluded that if the customer had just taken the time to reserve 30 minutes of shop time a while back he could probably have resolved a developing problem at $45 and not had to open his wallet up to pay for repairs that ultimately cost almost $300; not to mention all the fuel he wasted scudding around with a miss-firing engine for three months.
So being a Greenie has its rewards.
Dennis

Not to add too much to this, but Wisconsin at one point was a lush jungle. So, unless there was a thriving coal burning industrial complex in prehistoric times, I would likely say that the earth did it all by itself at one point.

The earth has gone through MONUMENTAL change over its life, it has flip flopped the magnetic poles 4-5 times in the life of the planet. I am sure that if we have that happen in our lifetime some left wing tree hugger will find some way to blame the US for that as well.

But, before humans this happened 4-5 times. BEFORE HUMANS !

The earth has a vast process of monitoring and dealing with the heating AND cooling of itself. The planet WILL make adjustments as IT sees fit. IF that means we (humans) are nearly wiped out, then so be it. There is NO way to force our intent on a living entity like the earth. It is absurd to think that we can. Can you stop a volcano from erupting? Can you make an earthquake stop? Can you stop the rain from falling?

What makes people so arrogant to believe that we have anything more than a little pip of a mouse fart in the big plans of the world?

A volcano can spew more greenhouse gasses in one belch than ALL of humanity has since the dawn of time. ONE BELCH from a volcano is greater than ALL of humanity, let that sink in a bit.

What happens if two of them belch? Or three? Or 10?

Is it now our fault? How many volcano’s have put gasses into the sky over the time that humans have roamed the earth? 20? 50? 100? 200? 2000?

IF and lets just run with this, 1000 volcanoes have sent up gasses on the order of Mount Pinatubo, then they have contributed 1000 TIMES all of man. That means we (ALL of man since the dawn of time) have only contributed 0.1% of the greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere.

What if THAT is the reason the temp has gone up? What if it has nothing to do with man, but simply the ebb and tide of the planet? You can’t say one way or the other, as we haven’t been watching the planet for 1000’s of years. Hell, semi modern meteorology hasn’t even been in existence for more than 200 years. Sure, astronomy, but not meteorology. So, why are people so sure that we are the cause and not that???

Now, I am not saying that we should just start spraying toxic waste on the planet for grins and giggles. But, what makes you so dang sure that this is abnormal for this planet. We don’t even know what lives in the oceans of the world, and now we have the ultimate answer as to who or what is causing the temperature to rise 1 degree.

Give me a break.

The global warming sketch has given governments on both sides of the pond the greatest excuse yet for hiking up taxes (and dreaming up new ones) fine style.

Once the gravy train is rolling, George W and Tony B.Liar will milk it for all it's worth.

Ghostbear has some very good points in his post !!

I think that cattle should be taxed as I have heard that they are the greatest present contributors to the green house effect?