The day my pinzgauer died........:(

ScottishPinz · Post by **ScottishPinz** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 2:15 am

The issue here is not so much how many wheels the handbrake holds but does the handbrake hold at all. Being a transmission brake it doesn't exactly brake just one wheel, rather because of the open diff if one wheel has no traction the vehicle will slide, just as the pinz isn't one wheel drive until you engage the lockers! Leaving it in gear has the same effect, unless the rear diff is in then one wheel on the loose is enough to loose the truck!

One question I do have... if I pull the diffs in they do not always engage if stationary i.e. no green light on for a second or two, would I have to wait for the green light before switching off and parking the truck?

undysworld · Post by **undysworld** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:10 am

Being a transmission brake

I'd refer to it as a driveline brake. It applies it's brake to the center drive shaft, aft of the rear diff instead of to the tranny. (It would work even with the cardan shaft removed at the transmission.)

Unlike simply being "in gear", the brake stops the drive shaft. Without the brake, the engine could turn over, which would allow the truck to creep.

The locker slaves have a spring which compresses when you flip a lever down and the actual locking collar doesn't engage. That way, once the shafts line up, the spring makes the locking collar actually engage. Only when the collar engages does the indicator light go on. So if you flip the lever, and the collar does not engage, it will engage once the shafts align. I'd think it would engage just fine once the truck made any movement at all. In short, you should not have to wait for the green light.

David Dunn · Post by **David Dunn** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:12 am

ScottishPinz wrote:The issue here is not so much how many wheels the handbrake holds but does the handbrake hold at all.

WRONG!
As Paul described, the emergency brake and leaving the trans in gear only operates on the driveshaft.

With the emergency brake applied, an "open" differential only locks one wheel at a time, because the spider gears transfers energy to the wheel with the least traction.... on flat land, the pressure is equal, and if parked perpendicular to the downhill.
Any circumstance where pressure is not equal, the wheel that is not being "held" can rotate and the vehicle will slowly roll, in a turn, until "held", then the opposite will may start to turn.... this back and forth action can build momentum to the point that a "runaway" happens.

With a braking force applied to two wheels at the same time, this "wig-wag" condition can be avoided.
But if the e brake is bad, the engine has low compression,and low traction ( gravel, sand, wet slippery ground) all work against you parking on a steep grade.

Andre · Post by **Andre** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:56 am

I believe Jim L. would argue that using the lockers additionaly would benefit keeping the system in good condition.

Otherwise not using them once in a while could lead to sticky, hard engaging and disengaging locker levers.

undysworld · Post by **undysworld** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:38 pm

But Andre, if you aren't using the lockers on a regular basis, what's the reason for owning a Pinzgauer in the first place? Just askin'...

Andre · Post by **Andre** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:17 pm

Not all of us get allot of playtime. Being that I've only been home 6 times this year,(as my wife reminded me) I would have had to take it out and lock it up just to keep it functional..

crossofiron · Post by **crossofiron** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:55 am

thanks folks for all the words of wisdom and condolence

firstly the fire extinguisher i used was a mid sized powder one, i tried to use it mostly under the engine and thro' the grille, daft as it sounds, the experts were on their way and i didnt want to release the engine cover, allowing more air to the flames.

i am kicking myself for not chocking the wheels, as i know darn well that i should have

and am still amazed that she managed to set off up hill! (the turning circle being so good, obviously the wheels turned....)

have had a few sleepless nights since, running it over in my head!

will let you know the cause, if we ever find out.

cheers,

max

spandit · Post by **spandit** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:37 am

Max,

That's bad news - hopefully the vehicle won't be written off. Do LPG systems have an emergency fuel cut-off switch fitted as standard? Nobody can blame you for not chocking the wheels - I don't (or didn't!) carry chocks as I presumed the handbrake would be fine - good to learn that I haven't been doing things right, although unfortunately at your expense!

crossofiron · Post by **crossofiron** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:41 am

spandit wrote:Max,

That's bad news - hopefully the vehicle won't be written off. Do LPG systems have an emergency fuel cut-off switch fitted as standard? Nobody can blame you for not chocking the wheels - I don't (or didn't!) carry chocks as I presumed the handbrake would be fine - good to learn that I haven't been doing things right, although unfortunately at your expense!

i'm not sure if fitted as standard (would presume so though, but there is (was, lol) an auto cut-off on mabel, she stalled at the junction as soon as she "knew" she was on fire! so thats one good thing.

**will be carrying chocks everywhere now, even when on foot**

texas pinzgauer · Post by **texas pinzgauer** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:32 am

Sorry to hear of your accident. It probably would have made quite a video!

Question for Professor Dunn...

When parking a Pinz on any sort of incline, the preferred technique is any or all of fthe following?

set parking brake
leave in gear (reverse?)
put it in low range
use wheel chocks

The last one might seem unlikely (coming from a guy in Houston) but our driveway is on a bit of an incline so that's what I use.

undysworld · Post by **undysworld** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:00 am

(I'm only answering because we're a couple hours ahead of Dave...)

set parking brake
Yes

leave in gear (reverse?)
If aimed downhill, use reverse. If aimed uphill, use 1st (lowest ratio).

put it in low range
Probably unnecessary, unless on a STEEP hill or your engine is tired and has low compression.

use wheel chocks
Better safe than sorry.

T.A. Paul

David Dunn · Post by **David Dunn** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:04 am

Aaah, what a short memory we have

Engage the front drive ! ( this started the drift on this thread)

Set brake and leave in gear.

On pavement, rest against the curb, turn wheels

Use wheel chocks ( 712 owners, one came with the truck)

Sorry for short answers, gotta run now.

undysworld · Post by **undysworld** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:20 pm

Engage the front drive !

YES! God am I a moron. Sorry Dave, that was what I meant to add!

That's why they call you the professor. I hereby turn in my teacher's assistant creds.

What a dumbass I am.

The bit about the curb's good too...

I think I'll shut up for today.

pinzmeister-uk · Post by **pinzmeister-uk** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:59 pm

I've just started taking " MABEL " apart, and it's not pretty!! The LPG system appeats to have shut down as it should, and all is intact, so I can rule out any faults in the propane set up. As the truck was running on LPG when the fire started I can also rule out any thing to do with petrol or carburettors, that only leaves an electrical fault, but as the damage is so extensive I may never find out where it started. I'll post any further developments.

spandit · Post by **spandit** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:13 am

That'll polish out

Hopefully the engine isn't wrecked. I know all the plastic bits will have melted/burnt but you might be able to salvage it.

What has the insurance company said?

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The day my pinzgauer died........:(

the day my pinzgauer died