THE PORTAL HUB - Pinzgauers, Haflingers, Volvo 303s and more!

Guys have you noticed?

Ten major US Industries have told "Bushey Boy" to get serious on Global Warming and not Climate Change as he lkes to call it. (as the official US Gov banter has been until the plight of the Polar Bears came to the fore just recently.)

I believe that the first sector to get fingered will be private transport (as usual) and like it or not ALL vehicles are going to get a more stringent limit placed upon them. That means "youz guys" in places like the Carolinas with Pinzies.old LR's and Mogs who think that such imposed regulations are an imposition upon your freedoms.

The emissions limits for pre 1981 vehicles is likely to be dropped to 1.5%CO from the current Fed limit of 6% where applicable. That will be for starters; Ultimately, the limits could be so severe in time that it might put you off the road or public track unless you comply. I believe the same will go for diesel engines only the cleanest will live.

This is where I am going to support Jake's efforts on his EFI conversion but I believe a great deal of additional work will need to be done to get your Pinz to comply to the new anticipated levels.

My business Linden Engineering Inc has been switching focus over the past year or so in anticipation of these forthcoming changes, and those changes echo a discusssion by a British MP on Auntie Beeb to a vehement denunciation of current US/Kioto Treaty by a member of Greenpeace.
In short, when the time draws near US industry will dust off dossiers they have had in their office archives to meet the new changes. This prediction has come to stark reality & not like most you get from most politicians especially on the "US/Iraqi Adventure"!

Our mission statement will be to persue means to ensure you keep driving your old Pinz, and we will continue to add products lines like the Willis APU for big trucks and Webasto preheaters to ensure your vehicle will comply to the new anticpated regulations. Once again to be proactive all Pinz owners can visit my shop to "review their current emissions" which ia a free test (always was always will be.)
Now are you ready for that electric Pinzie?
Dennis
Linden Engineering Inc
Agents Willis APU. Webasto products, MV EV conversions.

I understand you are joking about an electric pinzie but it's not a bad idea Dennis. It would be much quieter. Put Solar panels on the top, all over the top. Much wider torque range. Shift the weight to the back with batteries in the bed, a lighter weight electric motor mounted low in the front under the new middle front seat. Remove that heavy gearbox/transmission thing also. No need for the gas tank or exhaust either. It would be great for intermittent use in sunny places. Out of juice in the outback just park and put up a few extra photovoltaic panels. You could even cheat and carry a generator to recharge your batteries. I don't plan on converting mine to electric but I do worry about global warming. (If you don't worry about global warning then read this)

http://environment.newscientist.com/art ... ather.html

I like the (relative) simplicity of the dual carbs but I have been following Jake's EFI project closely because I would like to get highteen miles per gallon and better performance but also because I would like to minimize my emissions. I do believe you have hit the nail on the head about upcoming regulation. I live in St. Louis and we have been under a special Congressionally mandated pollution inspection/reduction program. Fortunately my pinz is exempt for now, but that could certainly change.

Scottie

Seems like this post ought to go under Chat.

But while we're on it, the Carolinas don't require emissions testing on pre-OBD vehicles.

Yes I thought of placing this under the chat columns but this really is about profound technical issue(s) that affect emissions from your older ex mil vehicle including the Pinzgauer.

Here are a couple of immediate observations that make the old 4 cylinder engine a chore to reduce emissions for some of those tighter States like CA & certain sectors of AZ.
Principally
The engine has no thermostatic control thus leading to very wide engine operating temperatures, this factor alone contributes to widely swinging emission figures during operational cycles. The inlet runners (manifolds) are also a cause of mixture density issues that in turn lead to incomplete burning of the fuel charge. Being subject to cooling air flow under "the tin" this affects the fuel charge. I did an experiment years ago with an electric element inserted under the carburetor to preheat the mixture, this measure alone had some tangible results but I didn't persue it any further due to the fact that the truck complied (and still does) to CO regulations with ease so no-one was interested in spending mopney on un-necessary voluntary pollution reduction.

I think the writing is on the wall since moves are afoot to start dealing with this emissions problem. It comes as no surprise I think that the US is the biggest world polluter although India and China are heading for that accolade very soon and they too by the way were "out opters" at the signing of the Kioto Treaty.

CA's one time owning Pinzinator has shown his willingness to accept (shall I state it again and be politcally incorredt) GLOBAL WARMING (sorry I swore) and as we know what starts in CA has a habit of being accepted in those OTHER States even the Carolinas.

Actually I believe even the Carolinas do have a "no idle" law for big trucks and that means the use of an APU if you want creature comforts whilst sleeping in the truck. Previously you could have left the main engine running all night guzzling a gallon an hour and leaving a cloud of fugg above the Truck Stop. Nowadays a three cyl Kubota in the APU keeps it all running for about a qt an hour. Now I think you will all agree that is progress.

This Global Warming business wil profoundly affect us all I believe so its back tio that old Chinese saying "May you live in interesting times."
Cheers
Dennis

I dissagree, it is not the US causing global warming. Look at the 3rd world counties with no emissions restrictions(high sulfur coal burning plants), and also look at the world wide cattle industry(cow farts), some Jack@ss in Norco tried to get meters installed to tax thier daily output!! End result was the closing down of more dairies, and driving up the cost of milk.
The earth will get hot and then it will get cold, that is the cycle, our country does more than most to filter pollutants and we don't have to sign some silly left wing agreement in Japan to do our part.
Thats all for now

Hello

I'm with Jim. I know that we are a great contributor, but there are others that are rising up through the ranks to be like us and that means that they must make the same mistakes that we did. Even advanced nations have taken their toll. Japan has had two-stroke cars on the road.
I am totally on board with the elec idea, but it will not be as simple as first thought. The motors with the awesome torque curve are DC and not sealed against the elements. Also, there are no DC throttle controllers (currently) that provide regenerative braking. That means the motor provides no sort of compression braking. The AC motors are sealed and easily provide regen braking, but produce torque similar to the existing engine and run hotter. So, that tranny stays and some sort of cooling system may be necessary for the motor as well as the throttle controller.
Other than that, I do agree that we are all doomed.

Eric P

Jim LaGuardia wrote:I dissagree, it is not the US causing global warming. Look at the 3rd world counties with no emissions restrictions(high sulfur coal burning plants), and also look at the world wide cattle industry(cow farts), some Jack@ss in Norco tried to get meters installed to tax thier daily output!! End result was the closing down of more dairies, and driving up the cost of milk.
The earth will get hot and then it will get cold, that is the cycle, our country does more than most to filter pollutants and we don't have to sign some silly left wing agreement in Japan to do our part.
Thats all for now

We Americans use up more than 25% of the earths non-renewable resources, yet we have less than 4% of the worlds total population....Blaming other countries is like saying "our s#*t doesn't stink."
P.S.-polluting is not a "freedom", it's just plain dumb! It's a foolish bird that willingly fouls his own nest....

As I see it, putting electric motors in place of what ever engine one has in any automobile may have no positive effect on the green house effect at all and may actually cause a negative effect, this is because many power stations are in fact major polluters themselves and are not necessarily the most efficient converters of energy. This also goes for portable generators needed to charge up the discharged batteries. Of course the car, truck what ever with electric motors might not pollute its self but we have to look at the problem as a whole and see it as total energy used or total pollution caused per mile /km. It is no good having the most so called green non polluting truck in the world if in fact all one does is transfer and magnify the problem some were else.

Every commodity or product that is used should have the total energy used to produce it displayed. This might make things like catalytic converters for example seem expensive in terms of the energy needed to produce them and the total amount of pollutants given off in making them, the long term balance may make it that they actually cause more pollution than they actually try to solve? This goes for any energy saving measure or so called green energy converter like solar panels or nuclear power stations, in fact the list is endless.

If governments or people are really serious in having a positive effect on pollution or the green house effect, then a far more serious look has to be made by those in office at a high level and by there advisers and consultants. This must surly be the only real way forward rather than us individuals tinkering around and possibly making the whole balance even worse in the attempt to improve things at a local level.

No offence was intended or animals harmed in producing this reply.

I have posted this to the Technical section and to the General chat because for the most part it is not about technical issues with the Pinz and I feel better ranting about global warming, emissions and electric cars in general chat. If you are responding to any of my posts please reply to the post in General Chat.


No it would not be simple, efficient, or cheap to make an electric Pinz. I would much rather convert mine to a turbo diesel and make my own bio-diesel fuel. But you could enclose a DC motor and still air cool it but it would take some sheet metal ductwork. You would not want it to get wet or have it eat a bunch of sand. I personally like the idea of a flywheel system for breaking and short term energy conservation but you are right about regenerative braking adding to the overall efficient. I wonder if the rail industry has looked into either for their big diesel/electric locomotives. I am not sure if there are currently commercial Pulse Width Modulated (PWM) DC controllers that could handle the load but PWM sure helps conserve the batteries. I could probably scale a PWM driver up to handle enough current if nothing commercial was out there. Using the DC motor for breaking with a flywheel system would just switch the main Engine to a generator to dump the recovered energy into the flywheel all using DC. Yes the flywheel system would have to be custom made but then it could also help to keep your Pinz from tipping over. Imagine a 5 ft diameter steel disc spinning at 10,000 RPM mounted horizontally in the bed over the batteries. You would have a truck, a top and beat a Harley for throbbing power if you were even a little bit out of balance.

While I think an electric Pinz is definitely possible to make I think for almost all applications it is a silly idea, unless you could use fuel cells instead of batteries. It might be great for use in a large underground mine or possibly for a hazardous/flammable environment like a chemical plant. I think the guys that designed the Pinz did one hell of a good job of designing a vehicle that was heavy duty, would go anywhere, and that with minimal low tech maintenance would last a long time. Efficient electric vehicles are high tech, need to be light weight, and tend to need high tech support and maintenance.

Scottie

Global warming is the most serious issue we face today as a world civilization.
The reduction of carbon emissions in the US and other industrialized countries is a major concern. This is not left wing tree hugging stuff this is here and now a major concern to us all.

When the US Gov rejected the Kiyoto Treaty it shot itself in the foot.

Better would have been a statement from the Lord Protector (Commander in Chief the last bloke to use the term) like "We in the US will study and put forward with progressive implementations measures to drastically reduce our carbon emissions over the next 20 years. American ingenuity & knowhow will find global solutions".
Now that would have been more constructive than wasting billions of dollars fannying around in Iraq causing global trouble. That amount of money would have given the US a head start on this issue, given the world leadership and universal approval. In short a two thumbs up for the US instead of the current two thumbs down.

In any case I see this as a great opportunity to US business. Already we at Linden Eng are earning increasing amounts of business revenue from emissions reduction measures and equipment supply. These anticipated compliance measures will create jobs for Americans if handled right. Too many American workers' jobs have been exported overseas, these measures will go some way to addressing that issue. Take a look at Briggs & Stratton as a shining example.

Going back to Pinzies I don't see the current petrol engine being anyway capable of getting into the anticipated near zero E levels. There will be IC engines coming out that will comply and we will be the fore to offer repowers. Already we have looked at liquid cooled CI engines for the 710/712, the issue really boils down the fact that money covers everything. Now I sound like Cindy Lauper over 'n out.
Cheers Dennis


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My vehicle life was forever mutated when I bought the Pinz into the stable. My wife loves to kid me about letting a "gasser" into the fold with all the other vehicles being diesels and running B100 (B20 during the winter) in them. It has been a hard reality to swallow. Any re-power that can offer the benefits of lower pollution and still maintain the Pinz as a viable
vehicle has my support. I would love to get better mileage and leave a lower pollution foot print. I know it will never be as good as our TDI with its 50mpg reality but that is certainly something to shoot for...even if it's only 20-25mpg. EFI is just a step closer to that reality and it may only be a stop gap solution until a viable re-power alternative is found. That's fine. The need for solutions to the climate challenge involves lots of personal committments to change in each of our lives and circles of influence.

lindenengineering wrote:Global warming is the most serious issue we face today as a world civilization.
The reduction of carbon emissions in the US and other industrialized countries is a major concern. This is not left wing tree hugging stuff this is here and now a major concern to us all.

When the US Gov rejected the Kiyoto Treaty it shot itself in the foot.

.

I was going to let this argument fly by with no response but I almost fell out of my chair when I read your comment on the Kiyoto Treaty. That "treaty" is more about distribution of wealth that anything else! Signing it would be the end of the US economy.

When country A can BUY pollution credits (or what ever they call it) from country B if they want to pollute more...How can that help the over all problem?Dennis, I am usually impressed with your comments and knowledge, but this one is waaaaay out there in left field.

Regarding the Kyoto Treaty...How is this supposed to help anything when a country like China who is given a free pass. China alone just in coal burns 1.9 billion metric tones a year and in 10 years that is expected to raise to almost 3 billion! The pollution that is produced from China's coal alone would be like having 3 billion Ford Excursions on the road for 30,000 miles a year. And that is just coal. I can't imagine what else they have. And if I remember correctly, over all the treaty stated that it it would only cut greenhouse gasses-10%. Give me a brake. I would be for some sort of world wide treaty, if it made sense...and included everyone.

All this talk about global warming is just the flavor of the month anyway. In 10 years it will be back to the Ice Age talk just like it was in the 70's. Funny how that works. Do you really think that that much has changed in the past 30 years? Like stated before, the definition of climate is CHANGE.

With in the past 100 years, how much has the temperature raised on the earth? With all the doomsday talk you would think like 10-15 degrees....The answer is less than ONE DEGREE. And that is from real records. Not the little bit of truth mixed with opinions (THEORIES) that you get from places like Gores movie.

For give me for the ramble. That's just one mans opinion.

STPPINZ

I have to agree with most of what you say. I can remember the talk in the past about the encroaching ice age, its all cyclic ice ages will probably come and go and weather patterns are also governed by solar activity which is on a general 11 year cycle. There is a debated topic on

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_variation

Over here in GB the media and the government take every opportunity to use recent weather phenomena to hype up there theories on global warming to create a sense of anxiety, of course the GB government use this as an excuse to put up fuel taxes and vehicle excise duty, so it is very much in there interest to scaremonger.

One wonders how little our personal sacrifices here negate the green house effect when China and India are polluting at an exponential rate year by year. :?:

I suggest that some one transfers this topic now to a more appropriate place like general chat where it can be carried on with vigor and cynicism and not upset those who only want to read relevant technical stuff related to Pinzgauers .

I'm all for reduction in our (i.e. human) impact on the world around us. However, the holier than thou attitude gets awful annoying. Case in point...the following link has a short article on Hawaii's biggest polluter that they quote as kicking out more than 1000 metric tons of sulfur dioxide per DAY. The kicker is that its a VOLCANO.

http://www.enn.com/today.html?id=7753

Hey. Global warming is a compelling theory with no substantial evidence to support it.

Emission controls will mostly / only be for new vehicles.

Emission checking / safety inspections of existing vehicles was always a joke in Indiana...costly, and a pain in the butt for average people while any good ol' boy could get a sticker for his rusted out pick-up. It was discontinued years ago. Ohio has recently come to the same conclusion, that the results don't support the cost.