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I am working on one of the Red Bull promotional Pinzgauers. They had a company install a 1.9L VW TDI which stock, has nearly double the power over the original 2.5L. Besides all the other problems with the conversion (I would never recommend it) the clutch cannot hold the power and has destroyed the flywheel in an extremely short period of time. They manufactured a custom flywheel and adapter plate that fits the original Pinz trans and clutch assembly. Is there anywhere I can pick up a higher performance clutch and pressure plate, perhaps a twin disc of some sort?

Use the 86 BMW 735 clutch, it is rated at 230 HP, ot the 78-84 533i, 733i, M30 clutch.,
I have used them with good results.
I heard about the conversions and knew it was a very bad idea. Aside from the logistical stand point, it is foolish to run the exhaust manifold on the topside facing the engine cover. I hope they insulated it well or..................Brisinger! (FIRE)

The case of the weakest link... once the clutch is beefed up, they're going to break something else upstream. The 1.9TDI primarily moved a 3000lb Jette, not the equivalent to a laden 712K. Most all modern ECU controlled engine control the torque to keep drivers from grenading the whole drivetrain.

Dave, its not just a pinz problem there's a guy here putting biodiesel engines in hummers and chevy SUVs. From what i've read they have to teach the client how to drive as most destroy the axle in a couple of weeks. they even had him on the green channel first time off the trailer he destroyed the axle.

This is a Pinz forum and I was addressing a problem with a Pinz....I could go into the upteen number of years each manufacturer has had engineering problems ... then add into it the aftermarket "reengineering" wizards that stress factory components beyond their limits, then hand the keys over to a body that want to push it to it's limits... and wonders why it broke?
To paraphrase what a Land Rover engineer said 40 years ago, they can engineer everything except the nut behind the wheel. The factories' ECUs are an attempt to do that. In the past, militaries have done this with reduced horsepower to stay safely within stress limits. ( but there are ones that do their best to break everything they touch).... they also spend tons of money on TMs

1.9TDI I feel is too small of engine for the weight of the RTPTs. Once they get it to go down the road, something else will break. SDP put the 2.4TD in the 716/18, not the 1.6, and later the 2.5TDI instead of the 1.9TDI. And remember a different trans and transfer case
The RTPTs are a piece of corporate Bling, and the TDI running on biodiesel a piece of green

Dave sorry I got off topic, just figured i'd reply every one seems on a race to throw a biodiesel engine i a car and call it green and your ready to go buy the way the bill will be $$$$$ taking in no other considerations on what needs to be done to the driveline. . Remember I pm'ed you a couple of months ago asking questions, about what they were doing. also they changed the third gear out and making it an over drive in the stock trans. looks like they made the nightmare a reality. Now red bull 712 is doing the clean up.

Besides the overheating problems, it has oiling problems. The engine is sitting at a 40 degrees on its side with the exhaust/intake side up. Good news is they can run without problems on their side. That is how they shove the TDI into the VW busses. Bad news is the wrong side is up, in the busses they put the exhaust side down, duh. As far as exhaust heat on the tunnel cover, intake blocks most of it, and there is a very minimal amount of insulation. So far it has only pealed off a little paint so I am not to worried about it at this point, the electrical is more of a fire danger right now. I will look into those clutch options, they should be fine. I think the TDI puts out 190hp and 240 ftlbs, but a BMW does not weigh nearly 9k pounds. We will figure it all out, but I for see them grenadine another engine. The TDI is so under powered. Cummins, Isuzu, Volvo, and a couple others have some industrial 4-bangers they should have used.

Erik712m wrote:. . Remember I pm'ed you a couple of months ago asking questions, about what they were doing. also they changed the third gear out and making it an over drive in the stock trans. looks like they made the nightmare a reality. Now red bull 712 is doing the clean up.

Swapping out 3rd gear had been bouncing around for years... it would also help to explain blowing out a clutch, that is a real long step from 2nd to the direct drive, and I hate to think of the stress on the system in OD.

The only gear ratio that is the same in a TD and a 710 is direct drive. With 5th as an overdrive, all the other gears (in the TD) are closer, and the lower and wider space gearing of the TD's transfer cases make up for it.

I'm not sure what you mean by "they made the nightmare a reality. Now red bull 712 is doing the clean up".....unless you mean in reality, they've created a new nightmare" and Red Bull is paying for it

As SDP had put TD and later TDI into the Pinzes, they knew back in the late '70s that they had to reverse the whole drivetrain and stretch the engine bay for a diesel to fit. The 1.9TDI as fitted to the Supacat is 78 bhp, and I seem to remember apps at 111 bhp. The 2.4TD engines were 105hp. IRRC The drivetrain of the pinz was designed for 130 to 140 hp.
As for the Cummin and Isuzu engine, they are both typical low rpm engines, and not up to the 4500 rpm needed for the 712's gearing for the highway. I'm not sure which Volvo engine you are thinking of, but the engine they used in the '80s and 90's is the VW 2.4TD, basically the same as was fitted to the 716/18 through 2000.

The choices for diesels in the US are not all that good, as in Europe.

It is a euro TDI engine. I dont know what the differences are though, told emissions but who knows. The engine that is installed is set to redline at 3400 rpm. I guess they hit 70+ (I never witnessed this) in the current setup. I want to count some revolutions and figure out gear ratios. We dont know what is changed at this point, we were basically handed a Pinz with problems and asked to fix it.

I feel your pain! I have worked on 2 of the RTPT's in the past, always a can of worms
So what other mods did they do when they put in the diesel motor?

3400 is low for a TDI, in the Supacat, max hp is at 4000, and max engine speed is 5200 ( in most other apps, I think they redline in the mid 4s). If "unmolested", the trans will have a dataplate with the gear ratios, and the T case should have a stamping in it too, with it's application. Is the truck still sporting the BFG 305 or315s?

A 712M with 33" tires and a TD overdrive trans will easily reach 75 mph while in the mid 3s rpms.

I'm not sure what you mean by "they made the nightmare a reality. Now red bull 712 is doing the clean up".....unless you mean in reality, they've created a new nightmare" and Red Bull is paying for it

No I i was talking about the dude who started the topic I called him red bull 712 because he hasn't listed his name. but both should be said.

think the TDI puts out 190hp and 240 ftlbs

I was told they were getting these numbers by increasing the cr and using bio diesel and that is why the rpms are set low.

it has oiling problems. The engine is sitting at a 40 degrees on its side with the exhaust/intake side up. Good news is they can run without problems on their side. That is how they shove the TDI into the VW busses. Bad news is the wrong side is up, in the busses they put the exhaust side down

this is why I asked why they didn't just use the 716 transfor case. It seems it would of helped, with some of the problems. I'm still having computer problems or user problems so I am thumb typing on my ipod it's getting real frustrating.

Erik712m wrote:

this is why I asked why they didn't just use the 716 transfor case. It seems it would of helped, with some of the problems. I'm still having computer problems or user problems so I am thumb typing on my ipod it's getting real frustrating.

OK Erik
Now I understand what you were heading towards ( need to readjust my decoder ring). Use a 716 t case with the input shaft on the left side of the central tube, and set the engine on the left also, and the orientation of the engine would be correct. And with the use of a OD tranny, you'd have "close" to TD drivetrain. Since you're already fabing new engine/trans mounts....not a big deal. but there 'could' be a issue with the doghouse needing to be enlarged to accommodate the engine being closer to the driver.
Now to find a 716 T box for less than a king's ransom....and btw, the Pink Cow will be under armed guard from now on.

Lose the ipod, and get a computer with a keyboard with really big keys