THE PORTAL HUB - Pinzgauers, Haflingers, Volvo 303s and more!

I've been reading here, and seen several of these types of posts, and have gained a lot of insight, but would like your opinions on the suitableness for my specific needs, and perhaps some suggestions.

I've lately switched my commute over from car to motorcycle, and I think it's time to ditch the sports-car to make room for something I can use for more "rugged" trips. I would probably use this vehicle for commuting about once a week, and additionally, whenever it rains. I have a few specific trips I'm planning for the next year as well.

1) Several weekend ski trips from san francisco to tahoe area in winter.
2) A 5500 mile, 2.5-3 week road trip into alaska in the late spring/early summer. After I'm there, another group of people would make the return trip, meaning that the vehicle would travel over 10,000 miles in around a month. Some parts of the trip will have as many as 6 passengers, 2.5 weeks worth of gear for 6 people, including tents, cold weather gear, etc. About 3000 miles would be traveled on paved roads (mostly 55mph highways), 2000 miles on unpaved/poor roads (2wd vehicle passable), and about 500 miles of the trip would be on roads requiring a capable offroad vehicle.
3) Use as a base-camp vehicle during a week-long camping trip in the nevada desert during summer -- daytime temperatures over 100 degrees, very strong windstorms (my tent has collapsed to a pile of rubble in the past). Presumably if the pinz canopy can handle highway speeds, it will serve as a suitable tent in these conditions, in addition to transporting enough water/food/clothes for a week-long trip for 2-3 people.
4) Base-vehicle for transporting 5-6 people and gear to trailheads for backpacking trips once a month during summer. 4x4(6x6) will allow access to more remote trailheads, but no serious offroading needed.
5) Transport for 2 people, dirt bikes, and gear to dirt bike trail riding areas; a few trips through the summer months.
6) Use for short-range transport for groups of people to 4x4-required areas of parks, when most people arrived in 2x4 vehicles. For example, last winter went to death valley with a caravan of cars, and wanted to go to the "race track" area, but the 2 4x4 vehicles had room for only 5 people between them, and the total group size was 12.

And, I'm positive that if I end up with a pinz, or other serious offroad vehicle, I'd make use of it, if not for rock crawling (though one run through the rubicon sounds tempting), for extensive trail-running.

The vehicle I'm considering:
712M

The things that attract me to this vehicle:
* The cargo capacity (by volume, not necessarily weight), while still being able to transport more than 2 people.
* Ability to fit a motorcycle inside (without a trailer)
* Ability to sleep flat-out inside (assuming make a platform to provide a level surface across the back).
* Unique appearance.

The things that have me worried about the vehicle:
* Will it be suitable for a large number of highway miles (50-55mph fine) without having maintenance problems? I'm talking 10,000 miles in a month for specific trips, etc. A single problem, while not necessarily life-threatening, would definitely have a significant impact on the trip timeline.
* Noise is a concern; sounds like I can do sound deadening for that...will I be able to deaden the noise to make both the driver cabin and the passengers in the back able to survive for 6+hrs driving at a stretch, multiple days in a row?
* Passenger comfort in the back. (There are stock benches...has anyone spent any amount of time in those? Are there other things that can be done, I've seen pics of one with bucket seats in the back...though this reduces the ability to transport non-personnel, and to lay a sheet of plywood/whatever across as a sleeping surface.
* Passenger visibility from the back. Is it comfortable for passengers to spend time in the back with the canvas sides down? Maybe I could make some plexiglass screens to keep visibility and deaden some of the wind for some of the longer highway stretches?
* I'm fine with a 50-55mph speed on paved roads, but...would feel uncomfortable on some roads, such as headed up into lake tahoe area if the hill grade makes me slow down to something in the 30s/low 40s due to downshifting. And on highways such as the grapevine heading into southern california (7% grade, i believe?), would I be able to at least keep up with the semi trucks in the right lane?

For the ability to handle passengers, gear, and cargo with a single vehicle (in different combinations on different outings), while having 4x4 and enough offroad capabilities to do the last few % of a trip, I don't see very many other options. I've looked at a 4x4 van conversion, considered a larger SUV such as a suburban/excursion, and it seems like a pinz just might be a good fit if I can get over my concerns mentioned above. I've driven a 712amb, and was quite impressed, though I did not get it over 35mph or so.

As a secondary note, I'm not into modding a vehicle; I'd like to leave it as close to stock as possible. I don't need anything too fancy for creature-comforts, am fine without a/c. But I may need to make some mods to meet the above requirements.
Mods I'd consider:
* 710 t-case on a 712m -- seems like keeping the rpms lower on highways would be a good thing. I don't plan to carry heavy loads, rather just looking at the 712 for cargo volume, and for the purportedly better ride it provides both on and off road.
* Sound-proofing on the bed, and in the cab. I'm not sure what the best things to do here are...rhino-liner or such in the bed?
* A heater for the bed area. The petrol heaters look like a good idea, but I have been unable to find info on their availability or cost. Any hints?
* I would need to figure out the front and rear seats through use, but may need to find something suitable for many long driving days.

Anybody care to either answer some of my questions above, or at least comment on the sanity of my thoughts/considerations?

Hello and welcome to the forum,

The rear compartment was designed in the 60s for troop transport, in Austria (which is a country with a smaller area than 38 of the US states!) So the notion of "comfort" and "long trip" today in the US have a very different meaning than what the Pinz's designers had in mind: as a consequence, the stock benches have limited padding and are very narrow, with zero lateral support and a very "upright" sitting position. There is only very limited sound-deadening from the stock canvas top.

This said, the only times when I spent long stretches of time in the back of a pinz, I was very happy to be on a seat with some protection from the elements, and I used to fall asleep like a baby... but that was when I was in the army... and what we call long trips in Switzerland are just short ones in the US!

Anyway, if you want to offer better comfort in the rear for passengers, I would suggest to at least increase the padding and provide for some sound-deadening (headsets with an intercom might be a good alternative if you want to keep your truck in stock condition...). You can probably provide decent comfort to a limited number of passengers by having them lie down on the benches with their backs on the bulkhead or on the rear of the truck. However, they will fall off the benches at the first curve if they don't hold on, so this won't work on winding roads...

I hope this helps,

Jan

I'm thinking 4 door Jeep Wrangler (or whatever they call it) will be a better vehicle for your application or perhaps a Chevy Tahoe.

I love mine but for the volume of highway driving you're describing, it will be brutal in a Pinzgauer.

Hello

It sounds like you need to buy my Volvo. It can cruise at 65 - 70 mph and on the steeper grades it only bogs down to about 50 mph. It is only slighty quieter than the Pinz(can be quieter with electric fan). It has seating and belts for 7 (including driver) and you can fold the rear seat down and fold out your platform(you know; the one you fabbed up) for room enough to use a queen size air-bed. The space behind the rear seat is 39" deep, so there is plenty of room for your backpacks even with the seven people. There is no room, however, for your dirtbikes. Even if you put them in the 712, you would have height issues with the top. E-mail me Troop4life@aol.com if you are interested.

Eric P

You can sleep in the pinz without making a platform, the rear seat fold to make a flat bed. I sleep in mine regularly. For the most part I agree with texaspinz.

The pinzgauer is a relatively high maintenance vehicle, compared to a modern day vehicle. Oil changes and inspection of valve's will be needed. Also it's a thirty year old vehicle with the amount of driving you're planning on doing. Plan on repairs. Jim L. or Tony are going to be your best friend. Hope you have deep pockets.

Used my pinz as a work truck a couple hundred miles a day. It was not cheap to operate. But fun.

For some of your listed uses the 712 would be great- others, not so great.
To me, they're best driving offroad or on-road up to 50 mph. Yes, they'll go faster easily, but the flapping top, gear noise, vibrations, etc. make it not fun for my passengers. I've already rhino lined the back, added the foam pipe insulation to the cross bars, enlarged the windows, and made an insulated liner for the top. I'm working on sound absorption and dampening upgrades with a carpet kit and acoustimat, and a rubber floor for the rear, but I'm not sure how much it will actually do. FWIW, There are others that made some really big mileage drives in theirs and really enjoyed it though.

If you have some patience to get where you want, they're great. If you need to get to the ski areas in hurry- forget it.

I have driven 3300 to 3500 miles in a pinz, I call that long, in a pinz, but I was by myself.
I think you are asking a lot for an old vehicle. 'course I am an old guy and I don't travel all that well myself.

I feel you are going to have to take some above normal care and more than a bit of rebuilding to get to the level of comfort you are requesting and to go 10k miles in a month, I think, is not very realistic. Plan for at least two months. Your companions will be fighting for the passenger seat. I cannot imagine riding that far in the back of a pinz, even if you take two months.

Hopefully you have lots and lots of money and time and are a great mechanic. I think you will have to have all that to be successful.

Happy trails...

I agree with most of the replies. Get yourself a 15 passenger 4 wheel drive van with a cargo carrier. Much more practical...maybe tow a pinz for the rough stuff when you get there......

Jer Bear

10,000 miles a month is a lot of miles for a Pinz. This will take some constant work, you will never get the noise down to the levels of a modern vehicle. I haul my dirt bikes around all the time in the 712m. The handlebars go right to the top but it still fits fine.
greg

So, I guess you're not buying a Pinz, huh?

You've obviously given this a good deal of thought. Good questions. Good answers too.

I've driven my 712 on 2000+ mi. trips, and agree with the previous replies. It'd be a great truck for some of your uses, but some of your other uses will require some sacrifice on the rider's end.

They're noisy, and I think you really won't get that issue solved. Jan's suggestion of headsets is great, I think.

They're (relatively) slow. I'd recommend not changing to a 710 gearbox, because the downshifting issues you mentioned are already a pain, especially at altitude. We topped the pass by Vail at 25 mph., even re-jetted for altitude. And that was Interstate hwy. I figure roughly 50% extra time for a trip, compared to my Toyota p/u.

They do require substantially more maintenance than a modern vehicle. Things like non-self-adjusting brakes (remember a 712 has SIX to do), the aforementioned valves, and just checking fluid levels on all 11 gearboxes.

Passenger comfort is, luckily, a subjective issue. My 8-yr. old (at the time) loved the trip to Colorado in the back. I couldn't stand an hour of riding on those bench seats. JerBear can speak for enjoying a long trip. But he likes adventures. I love driving it, but only from the front left seat.

I'd maybe suggest a trailer, to be towed by a capable SUV. You could carry a lot, have passengers, and still be comfy at 75mph on-road. If things got really tough, you could drop the trailer and make 2 trips.

On the other hand, there aren't many cooler rides than a Pinzgauer, and if you view the journey as the goal, rather than getting to your destination, you might still be able to justify buying a Pinz. Hope so.

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies...I was reading them, but didn't really get a chance to sit down and reply. So, after reading through these, I've decided that the pinz will have to wait, though I'd like to see one in the driveway sometime in the next few years.

I've put in an order for a standard length quigley 4x4 ford e350 which should do for me for now. Hopefully it arrives in time for my trip :).

0_ wrote:Hi all,

Thanks for the replies...I was reading them, but didn't really get a chance to sit down and reply. So, after reading through these, I've decided that the pinz will have to wait, though I'd like to see one in the driveway sometime in the next few years.

I've put in an order for a standard length quigley 4x4 ford e350 which should do for me for now. Hopefully it arrives in time for my trip .

Probably a much better choice for the amount of mileage you're talking about. A Pinzgauer is a great one or two person transport, but for long mileage, they're pretty harsh. Off road is a different story; there aren't many vehicles that I know of that can carry 14 people off road and do just as good as all the little Jeeps.